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A minefield of opportunities for litigation against the McCanns

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A minefield of opportunities for litigation against the McCanns

Post by Guest on Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:16 am

Just got this from profenceanti where it has been opened for debate not for promotion. I think it's from 3A's originally. Stevo is the Webmeister of TB's site.

Stevo Post subject: New website: Exposing the Fund and possible fraudPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:11 pm

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Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:05 pm
Posts: 947 If enough donors get together, it should be possible to force litigation similar to a class action lawsuit.

As donors to a private company fund (Madeleine's Fund: Leaving No Stone Unturned), a donor is, in effect, a customer or client of the company.

This essentially could mean that the customer/client is entitled to protection under similar UK laws protecting consumers.

This opens up a minefield of opportunities for litigation. For instance, making a donation via your credit card will trigger your card company into action if you raise a complaint about the vendor.

So...

I am developing the website: McCann Fund Fraud - Exposing the fraudulent Madeleine Fund as a way for us to enable a path to possible litigation or at the very least a substantial way to complain to the DTI or whatever government body we need to.

The site is http://mccannfundfraud.info/ and is slowly being updated.

If anyone can assist with articles please post them in this thread for copy/pasting or else email them directly to me at stevo@mccannfundfraud.info. All serious articles focusing on the Fund and it's potential fraud will be considered for publication.

The contact form on the site is comprehensive and allows for the production of a list of disgruntled donors and what remedies they would like.

This is only a suggestion and it pains me to say this but if you're not already a donor to the Madeleine Fund, please become one. Here's why;

1. The McCanns would be unlikely to prosecute anyone for libel who was also a donor to their fund.
2. Being a donor sets up a contract in law - you are now a client/consumer/customer of the private company and you have rights.
3. A donation of 10p should suffice or whatever minimum your credit card or Paypal will allow.
4. Being a customer allows you morally to complain and receive the same treatment as every other disgruntled donor - irrespective of the amount of your donation.

As a group, it would also be good PR for this forum and destroy some of Clarrie's talk of forums and blogs being "cesspits."

As the site is being developed, any suggestions for other things to add will be taken into account.

Give me strength. How much more must this family be made to suffer? Even if one abhores the children being left alone...enough already for God's sake. As Clairesy says. Dont these people baying for blood ever try to, as Claireesy says quite rightly, walk a mile in their shoes.


Last edited by ModNrodder on Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:46 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: A minefield of opportunities for litigation against the McCanns

Post by vee8 on Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:25 am

Let me get this straight. They want people to donate to the fund, JUST so they can then stir the it? Ye Gods, how low will these people stoop?


Last edited by Rosiepops on Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:02 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Forum Revamp)
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Re: A minefield of opportunities for litigation against the McCanns

Post by Guest on Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:42 am

I think it is suggesting anyone who has had second thoughts can use their advice. But it is instantly clear that what you thought Vee will be plugged as an idea.

Lets see, given the fund is for searching for Madeleine. Who is going to lose out from selfish vendeta's designed to punish the McCanns?

I got the following from Stevo's site. It's what the site is about:


McCann Fund Fraud

Overwhelming evidence shows that Madeleine McCann died in or near apartment 5A at the Ocean Club Resort in Praia da Luz in Portugal. Madeleine met her demise sometime between May 1 and May 3. Read the evidence in this website. The Fund they set up to look for Madeleine is fraudulent if any person involved in the case knew Madeleine was dead at the time it was set up. If you made a donation to the Madeleine Fund and are not happy with how your donation has been spent, please contact the site so we can form a group who can litigate against Madeleine's Fund: Leaving No Stone Unturned Limited.

Overwhelming evidence??? What planet are these people on? So many folk keeping it real and searching for any scrap of evidence to prove anything that will throw some light on what happened. Just as the police have been.....post Amaral.
Met her demise between May 1 and May 3? Show us the overwhelming proof then!!
Read the evidence on this website? So this is an official Police investigation site is it?
Fund is fraudulent if any person involved in the case knew Madeleine was dead at the time it was set up? Dont we need proof of death and death being known by the parents first to be able to say the fund is fraudulent?
If you made a donation to the Madeleine Fund and are not happy with how your donation has been spent, please contact the site so we can form a group who can litigate against Madeleine's Fund. So, if you are not happy with how the fund money is spent, prevent anyone else from making the choice to accept the fund. Really fair is that?????????


Heres a thought. If TB or any known believer in the death of Madeleine at the hands or with the knowledge of the McCanns subscribe to the fund and then retract to litigate. Aren't they involved in fraud? I mean if they know Madeleine is dead and subscribe to the fund aren't they going to be part of the so called fraud?

Is there any way we can put pressure on Stevo to pass this 'overwhelming' evidence to the police so they can do something about it? Yet another slur site that is probably set up in America using a proxy host so no action can be taken against them, Yet they have exploited the opportunity to use gullable people to carry out their selfish agenda against the McCanns.

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Re: A minefield of opportunities for litigation against the McCanns

Post by Guest on Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:16 am

I have just emailed the NSPCC with links to alert them that their advice has been cherry picked and used to exploit and back up un confirmed facts in an agenda to punish the McCanns by Tony Bennett.

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Re: A minefield of opportunities for litigation against the McCanns

Post by Guest on Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:23 pm

How many will be prepared to put their money where their mouths are???

Not many im guessing they will all prefer to remain nameless and shameless hiding behind their computer

And no doubt lying awake thinking of covering their backs and saving face!!! scared behind sofa

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The McCanns will be the ones doing the litigating.

Post by dianeh on Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:07 pm

Once again a bunch of halfwits living in a dream world with no idea of the law are getting themselves into trouble.

Lets start with this.

This is only a suggestion and it pains me to say this but if you're not already a donor to the Madeleine Fund, please become one. Here's why;

1. The McCanns would be unlikely to prosecute anyone for libel who was also a donor to their fund.
This is just wishful thinking, probably to make themselves think they wont get sued. News for you guys, the McCanns will sue whoever libels them, and if you think a 10p donation will stop it, you are living in a dreamworld.

2. Being a donor sets up a contract in law - you are now a client/consumer/customer of the private company and you have rights.
There is no contract created on the donation of funds. If you donate money, you are a donor, not a customer/client etc. And as such are not covered by consumer rights such as warranties, refunds etc. Below are the elements of a contract. ALL must be present for a contract to be formed, as you can see, they are not all present.

Requirements for a contract to be legally binding
The common law has developed six fundamental principles needed for a contract to be legally binding. These are:

Agreement - where one party makes an offer and the other accepts it;
Consideration - where one party gives something in exchange for something from the other party;
Intention - where both parties intend to abide by the contract;
Capacity - where both parties are mentally capable of understanding a contract;
Genuine consent - where both parties agree to the contract of their own free will; and
Legality - where all of the parts of the contract are legal.

There is no consideration. Just what is the donor getting in exchange for their money. The answer is nothing, therefore no consideration.

3. A donation of 10p should suffice or whatever minimum your credit card or Paypal will allow.
Yes, 10p would suffice to get you under investigation for being a nuisance.

4. Being a customer allows you morally to complain and receive the same treatment as every other disgruntled donor - irrespective of the amount of your donation.
A donor is not a customer, but is still entitled to complain about the use of the money. However, they must first have some idea about where the money went etc etc. And the donor would also be able to complain to the Dept of Consumer Affairs (or whatever the British Equivalent is). But reporting them for fraud, deceptive behaviour etc is difficult unless you have been a victim. And can you just imagine the laughs at the Dept of Consumer Affairs when they ask "How much did you lose?" and the person answer "10p". Strangely enough, this type of corporation/organisation will be covered under legislation, but I can guarantee that everything is being done correctly. The only complaint here is that the Fund is fraudulent because Madeleine is dead, although not legally declared dead, or even declared dead in the official PJ documents. I am pretty sure that even Dept of Consumer Affairs wont touch this one.

Also forgot to add that you can only report them if you can prove they have used the money in a way that is not consistent with the stated purpose of the fund. Consumer Affairs isnt interested in whether Madeleine is alive or dead. That is for the police. You cannot donate to a fund or a charity and then report them for spending the money in accordance with their stated purpose. And what the investigator think if you donated now, and then went and complained. I think that maybe someone who donated back in May/June last year may think they are entitled to complain (but they have nothign to back up a complaint after all),but not someone who donates now. Jeez, these people are stupid, I can honestly wonder at how they get on in the world, with their complete lack of logical thinking, inablility to reason and their obvious ability to do any research and then apply that research. For eg, what is a contract.


Last edited by dianeh on Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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And then there is this.

Post by dianeh on Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:17 pm

McCann Fund Fraud

Overwhelming evidence shows that Madeleine McCann died in or near apartment 5A at the Ocean Club Resort in Praia da Luz in Portugal. Madeleine met her demise sometime between May 1 and May 3. Read the evidence in this website. The Fund they set up to look for Madeleine is fraudulent if any person involved in the case knew Madeleine was dead at the time it was set up. If you made a donation to the Madeleine Fund and are not happy with how your donation has been spent, please contact the site so we can form a group who can litigate against Madeleine's Fund: Leaving No Stone Unturned Limited.

1.There is no evidence, let alone overwhelming evidence. I use as my source, the official police files. The author of the website uses his own arse.
2. This person can claim Madeleine is dead but it means nothing without any evidence. Also, that claim by itself means nothing.

AND THEN
3. Accusing the Fund of being fraudulent because it was set up by people who know Madeleine is dead. So that would mean the McCanns and the trustees. OH Dear. This is I am afraid one of the most blatant examples of Libel per Se, that I can imagine. Libel per se is libel that is so serious that if accepted by a judge, damages are automatically assumed. And when reading up on it, accusing someone of fraud without proof, is listed as one of the examples of libel per se. This is very very serious and I believe that the McCanns lawyers will already be acting on it. And this fool doesnt even prefix it with IMO, not that this makes any difference for libel per se, the opinion part does not reduce liability. This guy has cooked his goose and it isnt even Xmas yet.

4. They cannot litigate against the fund. The most they can do is ask for their own donations back. And even that will probably be at the discretion of the trustees. Although I am sure that the trustees would happily give back the 10p that these people have donated. They could try the small claims court but class actions are not allowed in that court. You cannot take legal action until you have tried all remedies to retrieve your fund. And if the purpose of the action is not to retrieve funds, and the police/Consumer Affairs say there has been no breaches of law, then all that will happen is that any action will be classed as a nuisance suit and chucked out of the court.

Has the insane asylum opened its door and let the lunatics out? I cannot believe that anyone with any degree of intelligence could be so stupid as to post this sort of stuff in a public domain. Talking of contracts and customers, when it clearly isnt, and taking legal action, all pretty laughable stuff, it reminds me of poorly educated people who dont know how the real world works.
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Re: A minefield of opportunities for litigation against the McCanns

Post by honestbroker on Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:14 pm

This is only a suggestion and it pains me to say this but if you're not already a donor to the Madeleine Fund, please become one. Here's why;

1. The McCanns would be unlikely to prosecute anyone for libel who was also a donor to their fund.
2. Being a donor sets up a contract in law - you are now a client/consumer/customer of the private company and you have rights.
3. A donation of 10p should suffice or whatever minimum your credit card or Paypal will allow.
4. Being a customer allows you morally to complain and receive the same treatment as every other disgruntled donor - irrespective of the amount of your donation.


As a group, it would also be good PR for this forum and destroy some of Clarrie's talk of forums and blogs being "cesspits."

As the site is being developed, any suggestions for other things to add will be taken into account
.

The guy is talking out of orafices where the sun doesn't shine.

Curiously enough, the point I underline in part 1 would be bang on right if he omitted the word unlikely. You don't prosecute anyone for libel. You sue them.

Point 2 is (legally) utter crap. For a contract to exist there must be consideration which means that those who donate to the fund must receive something of benefit in return.

I'm fairly certain that there is something deeply illegal in the whole proposal -- he is, in effect, proposing that people 'donate'with malicious intent. I'm fairly certain that's criminal.

Finally, if, per chance, it turned out that the fund was fraudulent, the McCanns would be prosecuted, not by any individual, but by the Crown Prosecution Service.

Not to put too fine a point on it, the man (or woman) is an idiot!

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Re: A minefield of opportunities for litigation against the McCanns

Post by vee8 on Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:41 pm

What EXACTLY are the McCann's doing with the funds, if not looking for Madeleine? If it IS fraudulent, how? In what way? The McCann's cannot just spend it on themselves, as and when they feel like it, all money spent has to be agreed with by a band of trustees. Oh, wait a minute, the trustees are all in on the lie too! How stupid of me! I imagine Carter Ruck are already on to this buffoon by now, as HE is causing malicious intent and undue stress on this family, as well as committing an act of libel himself.
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Re: A minefield of opportunities for litigation against the McCanns

Post by honestbroker on Sat Dec 13, 2008 8:36 am

dianeh wrote:Once again a bunch of halfwits living in a dream world with no idea of the law are getting themselves into trouble.

Lets start with this.

This is only a suggestion and it pains me to say this but if you're not already a donor to the Madeleine Fund, please become one. Here's why;

1. The McCanns would be unlikely to prosecute anyone for libel who was also a donor to their fund.
This is just wishful thinking, probably to make themselves think they wont get sued. News for you guys, the McCanns will sue whoever libels them, and if you think a 10p donation will stop it, you are living in a dreamworld.

2. Being a donor sets up a contract in law - you are now a client/consumer/customer of the private company and you have rights.
There is no contract created on the donation of funds. If you donate money, you are a donor, not a customer/client etc. And as such are not covered by consumer rights such as warranties, refunds etc. Below are the elements of a contract. ALL must be present for a contract to be formed, as you can see, they are not all present.

Requirements for a contract to be legally binding
The common law has developed six fundamental principles needed for a contract to be legally binding. These are:

Agreement - where one party makes an offer and the other accepts it;
Consideration - where one party gives something in exchange for something from the other party;
Intention - where both parties intend to abide by the contract;
Capacity - where both parties are mentally capable of understanding a contract;
Genuine consent - where both parties agree to the contract of their own free will; and
Legality - where all of the parts of the contract are legal.

There is no consideration. Just what is the donor getting in exchange for their money. The answer is nothing, therefore no consideration.

3. A donation of 10p should suffice or whatever minimum your credit card or Paypal will allow.
Yes, 10p would suffice to get you under investigation for being a nuisance.

4. Being a customer allows you morally to complain and receive the same treatment as every other disgruntled donor - irrespective of the amount of your donation.
A donor is not a customer, but is still entitled to complain about the use of the money. However, they must first have some idea about where the money went etc etc. And the donor would also be able to complain to the Dept of Consumer Affairs (or whatever the British Equivalent is). But reporting them for fraud, deceptive behaviour etc is difficult unless you have been a victim. And can you just imagine the laughs at the Dept of Consumer Affairs when they ask "How much did you lose?" and the person answer "10p". Strangely enough, this type of corporation/organisation will be covered under legislation, but I can guarantee that everything is being done correctly. The only complaint here is that the Fund is fraudulent because Madeleine is dead, although not legally declared dead, or even declared dead in the official PJ documents. I am pretty sure that even Dept of Consumer Affairs wont touch this one.

Also forgot to add that you can only report them if you can prove they have used the money in a way that is not consistent with the stated purpose of the fund. Consumer Affairs isnt interested in whether Madeleine is alive or dead. That is for the police. You cannot donate to a fund or a charity and then report them for spending the money in accordance with their stated purpose. And what the investigator think if you donated now, and then went and complained. I think that maybe someone who donated back in May/June last year may think they are entitled to complain (but they have nothign to back up a complaint after all),but not someone who donates now. Jeez, these people are stupid, I can honestly wonder at how they get on in the world, with their complete lack of logical thinking, inablility to reason and their obvious ability to do any research and then apply that research. For eg, what is a contract.

Exactly spot-on, Diane, except that you omitted to highlight the blunder of saying prosecuting when the writer meant suing (though you used the correct term). You've also given a much fuller (and completely accurate) description of the constituent elements of an actual contract.

I can only apologise for (more or less) aping your post without reading it properly. But your demolition job is much more thorough than mine.

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MISSING THREAD.

Post by Guest on Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:38 pm

Im sure you know which one im referring to, is there any reason for this?

I for one am glad its gone as theres less chance of it being copied and pasted and also forewarned is forarmed.

Just wondering

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Re: A minefield of opportunities for litigation against the McCanns

Post by Rosie on Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:07 am

ModNrodder wrote:I think it is suggesting anyone who has had second thoughts can use their advice. But it is instantly clear that what you thought Vee will be plugged as an idea.

Lets see, given the fund is for searching for Madeleine. Who is going to lose out from selfish vendeta's designed to punish the McCanns?

I got the following from Stevo's site. It's what the site is about:


McCann Fund Fraud

Overwhelming evidence shows that Madeleine McCann died in or near apartment 5A at the Ocean Club Resort in Praia da Luz in Portugal. Madeleine met her demise sometime between May 1 and May 3. Read the evidence in this website. The Fund they set up to look for Madeleine is fraudulent if any person involved in the case knew Madeleine was dead at the time it was set up. If you made a donation to the Madeleine Fund and are not happy with how your donation has been spent, please contact the site so we can form a group who can litigate against Madeleine's Fund: Leaving No Stone Unturned Limited.

Overwhelming evidence??? What planet are these people on? So many folk keeping it real and searching for any scrap of evidence to prove anything that will throw some light on what happened. Just as the police have been.....post Amaral.
Met her demise between May 1 and May 3? Show us the overwhelming proof then!!
Read the evidence on this website? So this is an official Police investigation site is it?
Fund is fraudulent if any person involved in the case knew Madeleine was dead at the time it was set up? Dont we need proof of death and death being known by the parents first to be able to say the fund is fraudulent?
If you made a donation to the Madeleine Fund and are not happy with how your donation has been spent, please contact the site so we can form a group who can litigate against Madeleine's Fund. So, if you are not happy with how the fund money is spent, prevent anyone else from making the choice to accept the fund. Really fair is that?????????


Heres a thought. If TB or any known believer in the death of Madeleine at the hands or with the knowledge of the McCanns subscribe to the fund and then retract to litigate. Aren't they involved in fraud? I mean if they know Madeleine is dead and subscribe to the fund aren't they going to be part of the so called fraud?

Is there any way we can put pressure on Stevo to pass this 'overwhelming' evidence to the police so they can do something about it? Yet another slur site that is probably set up in America using a proxy host so no action can be taken against them, Yet they have exploited the opportunity to use gullable people to carry out their selfish agenda against the McCanns.

It just makes you wonder what kind of numbskull this "Stevo" actually is.

If there was "overwhelming evidence" then ecuse me if I am wrong but wouldn't the McCanns have been arrested and tried for murder? What on earth is wring with these people? Jelly brains.

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Re: A minefield of opportunities for litigation against the McCanns

Post by vee8 on Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:11 am

Excuse me stevo, but the Portuguese judge advocate, in his summing up, clearly and unequivacally stated that there is NO evidence of the McCann's involvement, and that further, it was impossible to determine if Madeleine was even dead. Unless, of course, you know better than him.
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