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Mrs Fenns Statement/From Official Files

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Re: Mrs Fenns Statement/From Official Files

Post by vee8 on Sat Nov 08, 2008 5:17 am

Has anyone got a link to a photo of the apartment, or better, an ariel photo of the building? Someone on Big debates is saying that Mrs Fenn's apartment, above 5A, is seperated by a footpath from the rest of the building, and that it would be dificult for her to hear anything from any other room.
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Re: Mrs Fenns Statement/From Official Files

Post by Guest on Sat Nov 08, 2008 6:18 am



I think this is the same picture Sillycat posted for us on Vm. You can just see Mrs Fenn, Aparently, sitting on her balcony above 5A.

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Re: Mrs Fenns Statement/From Official Files

Post by vee8 on Sat Nov 08, 2008 6:42 am

Interesting. I can't see any footpath dividing the building, can you?
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Re: Mrs Fenns Statement/From Official Files

Post by vee8 on Sat Nov 08, 2008 6:48 am

Just got this off Google earth. Sorry, haven't got the hang of posting pics yet!

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/6942577

DEFINATLY no path dividing the building! As much as I respect sillycat, she is way off the mark on this one.
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Re: Mrs Fenns Statement/From Official Files

Post by Guest on Sat Nov 08, 2008 7:05 am

A footpath dividing a building amkes Two buildings? I only see One.



Doh, that link is to the page and not the picture, lol. Right click on the pisture you want to show Ness and paste it intio the box that comes up when you click the image button.

Here you go.


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Re: Mrs Fenns Statement/From Official Files

Post by maria on Sat Nov 08, 2008 7:54 am

On page 2412, is the interview with PAMELA FENN, who relates several
details, of which, though not clarifying the facts, are elucidating. PAMELA
FENN lives on the first floor of the residential block, above the apartment
occupied by the McCANN family. She related that, on 1 May 2007, two days
before the disappearance, at about 22h30, she heard a child crying, which
by the sound was MADELEINE. The child continued weeping for one hour
and 15 minutes, until the parent’s arrival (she heard the door sounds), at
about 23h45. This witness places in cause the allegation (by the parents) of
the daily routine of visits every 30 minutes to check the children who had
been left on their own.

This is a summary or report or reasoning on a witness account. What we want to look at is the swarn statement of Mrs Fenn.
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Re: Mrs Fenns Statement/From Official Files

Post by Guest on Sat Nov 08, 2008 8:05 am

Hi Maria, is the sworn statement what is coming out on the DVD?

That would be something to discus as the info that you have quoted, and I have elswhere is not very clear about which bit is what Mrs Fenn actually said, insinuated or was insinuated by team Amaral.

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Re: Mrs Fenns Statement/From Official Files

Post by maria on Sat Nov 08, 2008 8:10 am

Well, the DVD should contain that statement. May very well be that it suites to resume and publish that summary than the real statement. I can on rely on the reports, not on the opinions on them or their 'revised summary'. Well, this in spite of the reports being inconclusive, as the prosecutor said...
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Re: Mrs Fenns Statement/From Official Files

Post by vee8 on Sat Nov 08, 2008 11:33 pm

I posted those pics up on the Big debates board, and asked sillycat where the footpaths were. She apologised, and admitted her mistake, no if's, and's or but's! Now THAT'S why I respect her. How many other anti's would argue black is white rather than admit they were wrong? Why can't all the anti's be like sillycat?
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Re: Mrs Fenns Statement/From Official Files

Post by Shingle on Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:14 pm

Pamela Fenn said this, Pamela Fenn said that.....I have seen a lot of reports about what Pamela Fenn said, but no the actual statement from her.

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PHOTO'S OF THE APARTMENT.

Post by Royal on Tue Nov 11, 2008 1:36 am

Both photographs of number 5a give an excellent view and assessment of the 'Risk Factor' for any unsuspecting tenants using the place. The fact that it is an end apartment, slightly secluded behind bushes or foliage and easilly accessable from the road leads me to believe that the McCann family were extremely unfortunate to have been allocated that particular holiday apartment, indeed I would go as far as to say that any other families unfortunate to have occupied that particular open ended building would also have been at serious risk of intrusion from the adjoining road. A child the size of Madeleine could have easilly been been passed over the low hedge or even dangled through the small window to an accomplice waiting at the roadside. Perhaps the Mccanns have after all been extremely unfortunate to have been given that apartment as it would appear that if it hadn't been Madeleine who was kidnapped it could just as easilly been some other child and at some other time? Of course this is something we shall never know for sure unless the kidnapper/s are finally caught and confess to their crimes!
Alroy.

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Re: Mrs Fenns Statement/From Official Files

Post by Rosie on Tue Nov 11, 2008 2:29 am

Royal wrote:Both photographs of number 5a give an excellent view and assessment of the 'Risk Factor' for any unsuspecting tenants using the place. The fact that it is an end apartment, slightly secluded behind bushes or foliage and easilly accessable from the road leads me to believe that the McCann family were extremely unfortunate to have been allocated that particular holiday apartment, indeed I would go as far as to say that any other families unfortunate to have occupied that particular open ended building would also have been at serious risk of intrusion from the adjoining road. A child the size of Madeleine could have easilly been been passed over the low hedge or even dangled through the small window to an accomplice waiting at the roadside. Perhaps the Mccanns have after all been extremely unfortunate to have been given that apartment as it would appear that if it hadn't been Madeleine who was kidnapped it could just as easilly been some other child and at some other time? Of course this is something we shall never know for sure unless the kidnapper/s are finally caught and confess to their crimes!
Alroy.

Hi Alroy,

Now I think you have hit the nail firmly and squarely on the head! I think that any family (not necessarily the McCanns) would have had a child abducted from that apartment sooner or later!

Here is a link to what I think rather than bore you all to tears writing it again, you will see I am in broad agreement with what you have written.

http://justice4mccannfam.5forum.biz/madeleine-mccann-members-only-f13/what-i-think-may-have-happened-t775.htm

Remember that Mrs Fenn herself actually caught an intruder in her apartment just a few weeks before Madeleine disappeared. In fact I remember reading the description she gave. To me it would be worth getting her to give a description to see if they would resemble the e-fit descriptions given to the PJ by two unconnected individual witnesses. The e-fit descriptions that Goncalo Amaral did not bother to release to the press and did not even bother showing Kate and Gerry!

That apartment should never have been deemed fit to house any family holidaying, let alone a family with children.

Do you remember Bridget O'Donnell (Jes Wilkins partner) saying that she remembered looking at that apartment 'BEFORE' Madeleine disappeared and thinking she was very glad they had not been allocated it!

Who allocated this apartment to a family with little children? have the PJ looked into the likely possibility that this may have been an inside job?

Who had access to this apartment?

Who would be able to walk around near it and not be thought suspicious?

Who could have got a key to this apartment?

Why was the waiter (who has since disappeared) standing at the corner supposedly looking at Gerry talking to Jes Wilkins? The one who gave that statement. Why exactly was he standing here smoking? It was nowhere near where he was meant to be working.

Meanwhile, Mrs Fenn is an elderly lady who is obviously confused and flustered and distressed by the media attention and probably said anything to get away from the clutches of the PJ.

Why didn't the PJ investigate the 'fact' that Mrs Fenn reported an intruder INSIDE her apartment?

Why didn't the PJ investigate the 'fact' that Mrs Fenn's niece reported a suspicious person lurking in the car park outside the McCanns apartment a few weeks before Madeleine disappeared, when apparently there was another family with little children staying in 5a?

Did the person who Mrs Fenn's niece saw resemble the e-fit descriptions given by others?

Have the PJ even bothered to investigate this or have they just ignored it as they have appeared to ignore anything else that points to the very likely event that Madeleine was abducted from her bed that night?

How can Goncalo Amaral sleep at night? I hope he has nightmares.

So many questions that Goncalo Amaral should be answering. In fact he should be brought in for official questioning into his personal conduct and the way he conducted this slip shod investigation.

When is this going to happen?


Last edited by Rosiepops on Tue Nov 11, 2008 2:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Mrs Fenns Statement/From Official Files

Post by maria on Tue Nov 11, 2008 2:33 am

Alroy

To add to the sad coincidences, they were given that apartment because they had more children and the apartment is bigger than the others. But you probably already knew that.
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Hi Rosie

Post by Tinkerbell43 on Tue Nov 11, 2008 3:02 am

Just looking in from work. The description given by Mrs Fenns niece, was of a man she saw on the night Madeleine disappeared. The description she gave resembled the person JT had seen.

I'll dig out the links when I get home.

On this subject, did you know, JT gave a description of the Pyjama's before she even knew what Madeleine had been wearing!.
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ROSIEPOPS ATTACHMENT.

Post by Royal on Tue Nov 11, 2008 6:11 am

Read your message and the attachment Rosie and am surprised how similar our posts are, but I assure you I had not read your post previously, great minds must think alike it seems! Since getting involved in this particular discussion I am becoming more and more convinced some person or persons living either in or around Praia De Luz are involved in both Madeleine's and other abductions in the area, either as activists in a paedophile ring or as a small group of child molesters, possibly even a pair of local perverts. My reason for suspecting they may live locally is that there have been so many reports and sightings of "marauders" over a period of several weeks, indeed Mrs Fen herself had reported an intruder in her apartment. To my way of thinking this suggests a local resident living locally, or perhaps living in a cheap "long-stay" rented accomodation. I have previously suggested Madeleine could have been abducted by sea and still maintain it to be a strong possiblity, why else has there been no actual sightings of Madeleine being taken by road into or through Spain. But which ever way she was taken I very much suspect there was involvement by some person or persons living locally.
Alroy.

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Alroy

Post by Tinkerbell43 on Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:02 am

I'm with you on this, I have always felt the answers are close to the resort and the person(s) involved are local! I believe Madeleine was targetted and there was spotters operating around/within the resort.
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Tink, Alroy, Rosie

Post by dianeh on Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:36 am

Completely agree about the apartment being the important factor, not Madeleine herself, and that any family using that apartment was in danger.

And I also believe that someone either working at the resort, or contracting or staying nearby was involved in Madeleine's abduction, and had been waiting for the opportunity to arise. PDL's lack of trained police and their distance from Lisbon is I believe another factor as to why PDL was chosen.

I dont think the culprit is a local as such, not a true local, but maybe a long term visitor, or regular visitor and may even be 'under the radar'. I read an article the other day about the number of groups in Europe who live under the radar and that many of them are involved with crime of varying descriptions. And this article was not about the Romany, it was about other groups. So it is quite feasible that a 'group' came to PDL waiting for the opportunity to take a child. It wouldnt take long for them to work out the lay of the land, and particularly if one of them was working at the resort for a period of time.

I previously worked at a large resort in Queensland. Our staff turnover was enormous, with people staying mostly for a month or two and disappearing (many going home but some just keep on travelling around). The receiptionists tended to stay a bit longer but often were gone after three months, same with the child care staff. And we had drug dealers and a rapist amongst our staff while I worked there. Now (but not back then in the mid 90's) the child care staff and the security people must have police checks, but not the rest of the staff. And I doubt that Portugal is any stricter than Australia. So who knows who may have been working quite legitimately at the resort and that left within days or weeks of the abduction. I wonder if the McCann's detectives have tried to find these people. I also wonder if the resort has provided the information to them, to allow the people to be tracked down. You see without doing this, how would you tell the difference between a truly legitimate worker and one just there as part of a criminal gang.
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Re: Mrs Fenns Statement/From Official Files

Post by Pedro Silva on Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:48 am

I have also said that, from the first day of Madeleine´s abduction, I still maintain this, that someone inside the resort, is related with Madeleine´s abduction.

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Re: Mrs Fenns Statement/From Official Files

Post by Pedro Silva on Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:55 am

I also say more, that too, from the first day of her abduction, that someone planted the false evidences inside the apartment, to switch the course of the PJ investigation to the wrongly investigation about the couple, who, I reaffirm, are totally innocent.

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DIANEH'S INTERESTING POST.

Post by Royal on Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:26 pm

Hello Dianeh, and other posters, I try to read most posts on this forum but do not have time always to respond to all of them, but I try my best. Even so, there is Merit in everyone posts and by putting forwards all our theories and idea's it gives a better understanding of the whole picture. For instance the submission by Clairesy of those two apartment photographs has 'for me' thrown a completely different light on Madeleines disapearance, I now feel I understand better the thinking behind Maddies abductors. As I say Dianeh, I generally agree with everything you have said with just one exception, I am sorry but I somehow cannot see a group of Paedophiles travelling any distance and hanging around for days or even weeks on the off chance of finding a suitable child to abduct when there are far greater and less risky opportunities to snatch a child from the streets in most towns and cities as so often happens throughout the world. Why would a group of perverts travel long distances and hang around a small holiday complex in the hope of smuggling a child from her bed where there would be every chance of them being caught doing so as nearly happened when Gerry made an unscheduled visit to check on his children? No, I believe this is the work of some local person/s acting for his/their own disgusting pleasures or possibly as paid spotters/agents for a wealthy paedophile ring, maybe the owners of some expensive yacht ready and waiting in the local harbour? But I agree, it's all total guess work and each and every one of our theories has a degree of merit and has to be considered as a possibility.
Alroy.

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Re: Mrs Fenns Statement/From Official Files

Post by clairesy on Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:40 pm

Pedro Silva wrote:I also say more, that too, from the first day of her abduction, that someone planted the false evidences inside the apartment, to switch the course of the PJ investigation to the wrongly investigation about the couple, who, I reaffirm, are totally innocent.

Pedro.I have also wondered about the dna in the car....even though dna was just a partial match(which could have been part Madeleine from her toys and shoes etc and part the twins etc) I have wondered about this vehicle.

Murat hired a vehicle form the local hire shop and the usual procedure is to jot down the amount of mileage the vehicle as done on its return.However conveniently the rep in the shop did not mark down the mileage on this occasion.Hmmmm makes you wonder how many times they do that...or weather this was a one off.If it was one off then why?? Thing is Murat was reported to have been very agitated and seamed breathless and desperate to hire the car in a hurry.according to the shop assistant.
That desperate that he was suppose to have announced to her that if she didn't hire him a car NOW in a hurry he would take his business else where???

Not the usual customer request is it. And why(if they found him so suspicious) would they not do all the proper checks on him...(mileage etc etc)

The day he hired the care was the day Madeleine was reported to have been seen with a woman looking like his German bit on the side,and two other guys!!

Another thing why hire the car when he had two in his driveway???

Odd.

Did someone hire the mccanns car before them.If they did ...did they have Madeleine inside it??Is that why her scent was picked up inside that car??
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Hi Clairesy

Post by Rosie on Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:51 pm

I read this somewhere too. Have you got the link to this to hand? If so could you put it in our other place? It would be really helpful. ;)
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Fact Is

Post by Rosie on Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:02 am

That all we have suggested does have its own merits so Alroy and Diane are both perfectly right to point out these 'possibilities'.

Every possible scenario should have been thought and where possible investigated and should have happened under the auspices of one Goncalo Amaral, and later again when Amaral was sacked and demoted from the investigation and Paulo Rebelo took over, should have been reconsidered.

The fact that a huge number of leads and perfectly plausible theories and possibilities were seemingly ignored and not even considered, is why this investigation was concluded on a dire and unsatisfactory ending.

Now Madeleine's case is collecting dust on a cold case shelf somewhere. But if the people that took her think they have got away with it and can then proceed to take other children, they should think again!

I do not think that Amaral, Rebelo and anyone else connected with this case in any way shape or form has heard the last of it. (Not a threat - it is just a little promise to dear little Madeleine and any other child missing in Portugal under strange and unexplained circumstances)
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Diane

Post by maria on Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:03 am

Now (but not back then in the mid 90's) the child care staff and the security people must have police checks, but not the rest of the staff. And I doubt that Portugal is any stricter than Australia.

This is a joke, isn't it?

How can you have a police check if there are no files? Security people are involved in a most serious (criminal) war up in Lisbon and Oporto. I have been stopped to go in an exam at an hospital by the securuty guy at one of the doors, because my car should be parked two places further the one were it lawfully was. But in the meantime the door was wide open for anyone to get in.

Where do you think they are going to find the staff, if most of them are immigrants, many many times illegal? Not the ones with child care, or even security, but all the others around.

This is true for the whole Luz area, not only or specifically MW.
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Re: Mrs Fenns Statement/From Official Files

Post by Pedro Silva on Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:20 am

How can that in a car which was rented 25 days followed her abduction, how could she be there? The answer is no way, Madeleine was never in that car, the only things from her were clothes, toys, from her, from her twins, and that car, was used by the couple when they moved to new houses. How can the couple dispose a body, when everytime they went out or appear in public the media and lots of people were follow them wherever they go? The couple was the first time they visited PDL, it´s totally impossible for them to have the right knowledge of where to go, all the streets, al the persons, everything and everyone related to PDL under their knowledge.

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