Justice 4 ALL Madeleine McCann Family
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DNA - Mix of more than 1 person

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DNA - Mix of more than 1 person

Post by dianeh on Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:25 am

As it is front page news at almost every British newspaper, it's interesting to know with more detail what the scientists from Forensic Science Service told Portuguese police, on September 4, 2007, a few days before Gerry and Kate McCann were named "arguidos."

According to a document from FSS, signed by Mr. J.R. Lowe, analysis to the samples collected at the boot of the Renault Scenic produced a complex Low Copy Number DNA result which appeared to have originated from at least three people. Madeleine's DNA profile had 19 elements, each one represented by a peak on a chart, explains Mr. Lowe.

As Madeleine has inherited a same DNA component from both parents, the number of peaks in the chart is 19, instead of 20. Those 2 components appear, in the chart, as only one peak.

The FSS document states that of those 19 components, 15 are present within the result of the analysis to that specific sample. But the total number of components is 37, because there are at least three contributors, may be up to five, in the sample.

Mr. J.R. Lowe's opinion was that the result is too complex to have a meaningful interpretation or conclusion.

But, concerning the question asked, when the samples were sent to FSS – if it could be or not Madeleine's DNA – the FSS scientist admits that it would be very simple to say yes, because of the number of components, within the sample, that are also present in Madeleine DNA profile – 15 over 19.

However, as Mr. J.R. Lowe emphasizes, in the mentioned document, the scientists need to consider if the match is genuine and legitimate. Meaning, to be sure if either Madeleine's DNA was deposited in the car or if the result matched Madeleine's DNA just by chance.

To explain in more detail this question, the FSS scientist reminds that individual components of Madeleine's DNA are also present within the profile of many of the scientists that work in the Birmingham laboratory. Mr. Lowe even refers to his own DNA profile, as an evidence of that.

As the sample analysed has a mixture of elements from more than two persons, it is not possible, according to the FSS expert, to determine or evaluate which specific components pair with each other. Another difficulty mentioned is the fact that it's not possible to separate the components out into three individual DNA profiles.

As a conclusion, Mr. J.R. Lowe wrote that he could not answer the question if the partial match was genuine or just a chance match.

Duarte Levy and Paulo Reis

I copied this from another forum, but they didnt have a reference as to where they go it from. I am not going to scour Reis blog to see if it is from there.

But is this true?

If the DNA was from multiple people than the 15 point match is just hogwash. Any of these pointers could have come from any of the three. This means to me that it is not Madeleine's DNA, not even from transferrance. And this is also explains why it is such a match with so many different people, including half the FSS.

Has anyone seen the original report?
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Re: DNA - Mix of more than 1 person

Post by vee8 on Tue Oct 07, 2008 4:26 am

I did read, on another website article about DNA, that ALL the femail members of the McCann family would share 15 markers, Kate, Amilee, even Susan Healy, Kate's mum. So the DNA could, and indeed most likely would, be either Kate's or Amilee's.
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Re: DNA - Mix of more than 1 person

Post by Guest on Tue Oct 07, 2008 6:15 am

Hi Dianeh, that post was on 3A by Gestalt. I would trust Gestalt is telling the ruth. I googled it and found that the report is an email sent by J Lowe to the PJ.

The Liverpool Echo reorts about it. I dont think they would risk lying about what Mr Lowe said.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/breaking-news/2008/08/05/madeleine-mccann-police-accused-of-lying-over-hire-car-dna-100252-21464060/

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modnrodder and others.

Post by Royal on Tue Oct 07, 2008 8:07 am

Hi there Modnrodder and other posters, please read my Post on "Other Bloggs-Public" you may find it of interest in these worrying times. Thanks!
Alroy.

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Vee8 & Mod

Post by dianeh on Tue Oct 07, 2008 8:18 am

I knew it came from 3A's (not where I read it though) but it had no reference.

I would suggest that there is other DNA apart from family members involved here. DNA from 3 different people contributing to the mix means that there is no proof of anything. I cannot believe that the fat idiot thought that this indicated Madeleine's DNA was even present. And there is no mention of the match of either of the twins either, which I would have thought would have been crucial to identifying just where the DNA came from. After all, if either Sean or Amelie had the same 15 point match, then it would be a valid assumption that it is indeed their DNA instead of Madeleine's. But in defence of the FSS, they probably thought that they had indicated there was no way to determine if this was a chance match (as with the majority of people working at the FSS, including Mr Lowe) or it was Madeleine's DNA. But lets be realistic, this information should not have been taken in isolation.

It should have taken into account
- the possibility of Sean or Amelie (as quite simply their DNA is likely to be there through transferrence) having a similar or even an exact match to the DNA sample,
- or more clearly ruling out that Sean or Amelie, or Kate, or Gerry do not have their DNA involved in the multiple DNA sample, and this should be simple because there would be a high likelihood of matching to the profile if any of their DNA was invovled, so I would suggest a low match indicates it isnt their DNA. WHY WAS THIS NOT DONE AND INCLUDED IN THE REPORT, OR DONT LATER ON BY THE FSS
- the likelihood of Madeleine's DNA being in the car which was not hired for 20 days after she disappeared,
- the lack of hard evidence of cadaverine from a decomposing body

Quite simply, using a sample which contains the DNA of 3 individuals some of which may be related to Madeleine,without ruling out that the DNA is not a match to one fo the family, means that the evidence is virtually useless. After all, as I have said before, if the DNA matches Kate or one of the twins, as well as Madeleine's DNA (remembering we dont have full DNA analysis, only partial matching is possible due to the sample size and quality), and Kate and the twins were known to be in the car, just whose DNA do they think it is. Let use Occham's razor for a moment. The simplest explanation is most likely the correct one.

I cannot state just how angry this whole thing makes me. The FSS should have been more specific. The thing missing from this report is the f***wit factor, in other words they needed to spell out that in their opinion, there is no evidence that Madeleine had been in the car. But in defence of the FSS, they are probably not used to having to deal with the f***wit factor in their reports, instead relying upon the skills and training of the British police to correctly apply the results given to them.
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Re: DNA - Mix of more than 1 person

Post by vee8 on Tue Oct 07, 2008 8:32 am

I think your last sentence sums it up perfectly. They are used to dealing with professionals, not f***wits!
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Re: DNA - Mix of more than 1 person

Post by Guest on Tue Oct 07, 2008 6:00 pm

Dianeh, yes I think that we are entitled to have some more specific reports on the findings for public consumption.

I googled your first post and it took me to 3A's. Straight to Gestalts post. he is one of the 'realistic' posters who has managed to survive in there. So I was glad it was his post I had to read and it wasn't in one of the usual fantasy thread. lol.

Will do Alroy, thanks.

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