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charlotte sees murat at scene then with a guy who she said she also saw at the airport a few days later. looking like the guy in the efit.

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charlotte sees murat at scene then with a guy who she said she also saw at the airport a few days later. looking like the guy in the efit.

Post by clairesy on Fri Aug 29, 2008 7:35 am

Witness 'saw Murat at resort'

Victoria Ward in Praia Da Luz 03/12/2007

A key witness has told police she spotted suspect Robert Murat at the scene the night Madeleine McCann vanished.

British nanny Charlotte Pennington, 20, claims she saw Murat at the Ocean Club resort in Praia da Luz on the evening of May 3.

She told the private detective agency hired by the McCanns that when she confronted the expat property developer the following day he denied having ever been there.

She said he tried to shrug it off and instead gave his mobile number to one of her colleagues in case she saw "anything suspicious".

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And she recalled that Murat told them: "When you see something strange contact me."

The details emerged after Charlotte, from Leatherhead, Surrey, was questioned again about the evening four-year-old Maddy vanished.

She was one of the first on the scene and has already given a haunting account of Kate McCann's horror - describing her as "a broken woman" who was shuddering and unable to move.

She is adamant that she saw Murat at the scene at around midnight. She says he was standing at the club's reception as the massive search swung into action.

But she told detectives that when she saw him working as a translator for police the following afternoon, he said: "No, I wasn't there" - and indicated that she shouldn't pursue the subject.

She said in her statement to Barcelona-based agency Metodo 3: "When I went in, he was in the kitchen with several detectives. He didn't want to talk any more."

Charlotte admitted that she thought his answer "very strange" because she was "certain" she saw him that night.

She said he hung around helping to translate the statements of other babysitters, including her friends Kirsty Mayran and Lianne Wagstaff. And she told detectives he gave his mobile number to Kirsty, asking her to contact him if any of them saw anything suspicious.

She said: "In the end we didn't know who he worked for." She added that over the next few days Murat was "constantly" at the resort.

The nanny said she saw him again sitting outside the local supermarket with a man aged between 27 and 35, of medium build with very dark eyes and "a Portuguese or Spanish look".

And she claimed she saw the same man at Faro airport on May 13, when she returned to England.

Charlotte told detectives she was struck by his similarity to an e-fit of a Maddy suspect - though it was unclear which one.

She reported the sighting to police on her return to the UK. Murat, 34, was made arguido - an official suspect - on May 14.

He insists he was having dinner at home with his mum Jenny, 71, throughout the evening of Madeleine's disappearance.

But several people have placed him at the Ocean Club that night, including three of the McCanns' friends and a couple who contacted Metodo 3 to say they saw him walking along a road outside the family's apartment.

Meanwhile, police are investigating a disused barn in Praia da Luz where a towel was found that could have traces of Madeleine's blood.

Fibres were said to have a strong match to those found in the hire car rented by Kate and Gerry McCann 25 days after the tot disappeared.

Forensic experts used a substance called luminol to search for blood - and found three potential samples, according to Portuguese sources.

They showed a "moderate" match but were not strong enough to be presented as evidence.

Portuguese plan to return to the UK to re-interview the so-called Tapas Seven. They also want British experts to carry out new DNA tests after the initial batch proved inconclusive.

+++++++++++++++++++++++

chilling hey??..thing is I have always wondered about murat. I don't feel 100% the same way i felt before however i am not comfortable with his behavior and also the statements of those who put him at the scene. He was also said to have asked people for an alibi that night. An alibi which changed numerous times.
The way he spoke to the car rental lady was also uncalled for and unnecessary. He as 2 cars in his drive...yet he felt the need to get irritated with a rental worker because she wanted to go to lunch before renting him the car..........she said he was very shaky and seemed in a rush to hire the car immediately...saying must have it now or I shall take my business else where.

He also lied about having contact with malinka. telephone records show they spoke that night of 3rd may 2007...however he and malinka states they aint spoken for months.After madeleine vanished it was also reported he and malinka were sat at a local cafe together.
Malinka (the pc expert) says his reasons for knowing murat were solely for business purposes and he helped him and his German girlfriend Michaela set it up months previous to madeleine being taken....hmmmmmmmmmm OK...........then just a few months later malinka gets his car torched with the word fala(meaning talk) sprayed on the pavement beside it.
????????????????????????????????????? don't sound innocent to me??? who sprayed that....who knows something???why aint nothing else been reported on this matter?????

Im sorry I am aware a lot of you feel murat as been treated unfairly...and maybe he as....but we all have different opinions and I cannot stop wondering about this guy. Im not convinced of his innocence to having any knowledge of 3rd may.
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Re: charlotte sees murat at scene then with a guy who she said she also saw at the airport a few days later. looking like the guy in the efit.

Post by clairesy on Fri Aug 29, 2008 7:52 am

Another thing.....Charlotte sees this guy again at the airport on may 13th.....she reports it to police when she arrives in the uk and the following day may14th....murat is made arguido.

So was this guy at the airport caught on cctv...surly he was???? :scratch:

why hasn't it been talked of no more????

Hmmmmmmmmmmm was this guy ignored??? Did they even bother to trace the cctv images for his mug???? Others who gave the e-fit could have also recognised him aswell as Charlotte.
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Re: charlotte sees murat at scene then with a guy who she said she also saw at the airport a few days later. looking like the guy in the efit.

Post by clairesy on Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:11 am

MADDY: THREE ACCUSED

EXCLUSIVE Investigators think friends may have plotted kidnap
By Graham Brough And Martin Fricker
20/11/2007

Three friends may have been behind Madeleine McCann's kidnap, investigators claimed last night.

Private detectives fear Robert Murat, girlfriend Michaela Walczuch and her estranged husband Luis Antonio were part of an organised ring that snatched the four-year-old. Pool cleaner Antonio worked at the resort where Maddy vanished and had full access to the complex.

He could have spied on her before the plot was hatched.

A source said: "The connection would appear to be very significant."

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Investigators claim Antonio, 47, could have easily got German-born Walczuch into the secure Mark Warner resort at Praia da Luz.

Yesterday the 34-year-old was named by the Mirror as the woman spotted bundling a child into a car two days after Maddy vanished.

At the time she was living with Antonio, who worked at the pool where Gerry and Kate McCann took their three children daily.

We can also reveal new witness statements taken recently claim Murat - an "arguido" in the case - was spotted near Maddy's holiday apartment the night she vanished, despite him insisting he was at home nearby.

He returned next day and became an unofficial translator for police - giving him access to statements. It is claimed he told some workers at the complex to speak to him if they had information before going to the police.

Our source added: "This phase of the investigation has found many people linking Murat to the scene that night.

"It seems significant he is denying it despite multiple sightings.

"Putting himself forward as a translator on that first chaotic morning afterwards also put him well in place to get the inside track of the investigation, perhaps cleverly, it may transpire.

"I would be amazed if Murat is not questioned again very soon over these new findings."

Portuguese sources claim the ex-pat could be further quizzed this week.

Yesterday Walczuch - who lives in Lagos, near Praia da Luz - refused to comment on claims she was seen with a girl resembling Madeleine in central Portugal on May 5. Murat's lawyer Francisco Pagarete was with her. He said: "These allegations are ridiculous."

Independent forensic tests of Kate and Gerry's hire car in Portugal found none of Madeleine's DNA, it emerged last night.

Home Office-approved pathologists carried out the examinations.

Millionaire businessman Brian Kennedy, 47, who has helped fund the couple's campaign to find their daughter, said: "We've carried out our own tests which found no trace of Madeleine in the hire car."

Portuguese police have claimed Maddy's DNA was found in the boot of the Renault Scenic and insist her body was there.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/top...-20131895/
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Re: charlotte sees murat at scene then with a guy who she said she also saw at the airport a few days later. looking like the guy in the efit.

Post by clairesy on Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:16 am

This quote regarding machaela................


Yesterday the 34-year-old was named by the Mirror as the woman spotted bundling a child into a car two days after Maddy vanished.

Does anyone know exactly how long after madeleine vanished before murat got his moss off with the car rental lady becasue he wanted to hire a car right now in an hurry....saying he must have it now etc and cannot wait???

Think that was 2 days after madeleine vanished to.....funny as his German girlfriend was seen bundling a child like madeleine into a car 2 days after she vanished.

Struck me as odd....a bit of a coincidence maybe???Hmmmmm
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Re: charlotte sees murat at scene then with a guy who she said she also saw at the airport a few days later. looking like the guy in the efit.

Post by clairesy on Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:25 am

Ohhh another sighting of madeleine in a car with a woman 2 days after being taken...

: A Spanish tourist said she saw Madeleine in Morocco on June 15 and another witness claims to have seen her in a car with a woman in Portugal on May 5.""

Sorry im over taking this thread here, but I have just found a site with sh#t loads of news reports all about this case....loads and loads of them and theres some very interesting reads there. ;)

this German woman of murats and luis(funny set up there) also claims she was at at a jahova meeting at a church the night madeleine went missing...that was her alibi.....she lied...............the church leader threw her for breaking the rules .....also it was reported that some residents of the OC have reported having a blond woman and a guy fitting her and murats description knocking their door to chat about jahover stuff....one woman said she didn't like the way they seemed interested in her blond daughter!!!!
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Re: charlotte sees murat at scene then with a guy who she said she also saw at the airport a few days later. looking like the guy in the efit.

Post by kateno.51 on Sat Aug 30, 2008 9:35 pm

clairesy wrote:Ohhh another sighting of madeleine in a car with a woman 2 days after being taken...

: A Spanish tourist said she saw Madeleine in Morocco on June 15 and another witness claims to have seen her in a car with a woman in Portugal on May 5.""

Sorry im over taking this thread here, but I have just found a site with sh#t loads of news reports all about this case....loads and loads of them and theres some very interesting reads there. ;)

this German woman of murats and luis(funny set up there) also claims she was at at a jahova meeting at a church the night madeleine went missing...that was her alibi.....she lied...............the church leader threw her for breaking the rules .....also it was reported that some residents of the OC have reported having a blond woman and a guy fitting her and murats description knocking their door to chat about jahover stuff....one woman said she didn't like the way they seemed interested in her blond daughter!!!!

Hi Clairesy.

In my opinion he's definitely in this somewhere. He would have access to loads of keys of vacant properties, as he's an estate agent, so far he's off the hook with a tidy wee sum in the bank.

Thinking of the girlfriend's husband, did they all work together? Why give up the job of an estate agent to work as a pool cleaner at the Ocean Club? That alone makes me suspicious. Hope they're all being properly investigated by the McCann's investgators.


Last edited by kateno.51 on Sat Aug 30, 2008 9:39 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typed mccanns instead of mccanns investigators)

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Re: charlotte sees murat at scene then with a guy who she said she also saw at the airport a few days later. looking like the guy in the efit.

Post by clairesy on Sat Aug 30, 2008 10:12 pm

kateno.51 wrote:
clairesy wrote:Ohhh another sighting of madeleine in a car with a woman 2 days after being taken...

: A Spanish tourist said she saw Madeleine in Morocco on June 15 and another witness claims to have seen her in a car with a woman in Portugal on May 5.""

Sorry im over taking this thread here, but I have just found a site with sh#t loads of news reports all about this case....loads and loads of them and theres some very interesting reads there. ;)

this German woman of murats and luis(funny set up there) also claims she was at at a jahova meeting at a church the night madeleine went missing...that was her alibi.....she lied...............the church leader threw her for breaking the rules .....also it was reported that some residents of the OC have reported having a blond woman and a guy fitting her and murats description knocking their door to chat about jahover stuff....one woman said she didn't like the way they seemed interested in her blond daughter!!!!

Hi Clairesy.

In my opinion he's definitely in this somewhere. He would have access to loads of keys of vacant properties, as he's an estate agent, so far he's off the hook with a tidy wee sum in the bank.

Thinking of the girlfriend's husband, did they all work together? Why give up the job of an estate agent to work as a pool cleaner at the Ocean Club? That alone makes me suspicious. Hope they're all being properly investigated by the McCann's investgators.


hi!!

not sure if luis worked at the property place to.But methinks machaila is partners with murat the webs site is theirs and malinka helped set it up with them.
Luis working at the OC would also place him in position where he would have knowledge of the layout of the complex. He would aslo be known to some of the staff there and possibly even some of the tourist who might have gotten into chats with him. Can you remember jane tanners description of the guy walking away with madeleine.........In that she said that the guy had hair that appeared to go down the back of his neck. Look at this picture of luis(machailas hubbie)........





A blond woman was also seen peering through the window of Madeleine's room that night to. Could it be....that luis carried madeleine from the hotel He might have spoken to madeleine in the creche at some point or on the grounds..he works there so he might have been a familiar face to madeleine. Could it be that the reason murat was seen loitering about a lot in the coming days was because he was sussing things out for them. Some witnesses place murat at the scene immediately after madeleine was taken.

luis wife machaila,who also knocks off murat when she feels like it,(with luis permission to??urgh) was seen with a child fitting madeleine description 2 days later...she was passing her to a waiting guy in another car. Robert murat had called a car hire company in a hurry 2 days after Madeleine went missing to demand a car right now in a hurry .The car sales woman said he was rushed and seemed shaky etc.Why would he need a car in such a hurry when he as 2 sat in the drive????Sorry it stinks I aint happy with this and IMO he knows something.
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Re: charlotte sees murat at scene then with a guy who she said she also saw at the airport a few days later. looking like the guy in the efit.

Post by clairesy on Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:10 pm

Also to add to my last post.When was the photo of luis(below) taken...i don't suppose he was in the medias spotlight before madeleine went missing so im assuming it was taken after she was snatched??

Do is see a beard etc there that could have been shaved off recently.

IMO if you add a beared etc to that face below he would look like the oliver shanti look alike that someone clearly remembers seeing loitering about the area.



This is a picture of the guy they though could be the man in the efit...looks like oliver shanti(the peado arrested in portugal not long ago.It wasnt the guy in the picture so who was it???
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this information

Post by Guest on Sun Aug 31, 2008 6:35 am

...but we can't find the page:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top...-20131895/

The file could not be found for a number of reasons such as the file being moved or deleted. Please check your spelling and if you still can't get to the right page try either using the Search Box above or heading to the homepage for a look around.

Alternatively you could try one of the pages on your right.

If you still have problems, try emailing feedback@mirror.co.uk and we'll do what we can to help you.

this page was deleted as it was one which murat sued the media over,

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Clairesy

Post by Rosie on Sun Aug 31, 2008 6:43 am

I have to say that those two images disturb me with their likeness, they did when I all the men you mention are put together.

If it is known to the PJ that two men who are known paedophiles were in PDL at the time that Madeleine disappeared, you would hope that something comes up in the files that explains if they have been properly ruled out of the investigation.
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i hope

Post by Guest on Sun Aug 31, 2008 9:32 am

i hope something is found in these files,and creepy murat and co has to give every penny back

the money he simply did not deserve.....................

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Re: charlotte sees murat at scene then with a guy who she said she also saw at the airport a few days later. looking like the guy in the efit.

Post by clairesy on Sun Aug 31, 2008 10:04 am

Oh it will happen .Imo the culprits are already known to us.

And also, i believe that the pj have closed this case(as they said) suspect mr murat as claimed compensation.So have the mccanns. Files have been urrrm completed and handed over.

An end to part 1 of this investigation...............

However the investigation continues without the help of previous investigators(the pj)

I feel that certain people are hoping the 'new' investigation gets nowhere and that they cannot solve this mystery. IMO when this investigation is complete a lot of those from the previous investigation will be back in the limelight. And I feel that even though those from 'part one' feel they are now free....they are also panicking and still not free in their minds.

As Brian or merlin said once,.'The abductors have already been caught'. Thats always stuck in my mind and I feel there is an element of truth in that statement.

Watch what happens when the new news comes out,as it will.This 'new ' part to the investigation is fresh...only been going on for a few weeks. And the good thing is...they already have a lot to go on.

As k&g,or Clarence said in that program....any leads are checked out before being made public.which is one of the reasons i couldnt understand all the cctv recently being released into the public domain.It didn't add up to me.

Any real important major leads are definitely kept under wraps.We wont hear or see(i dont believe) anything until its ruled out. Brings me to ask why have all these so called sightings...the cctv etc etc been released giving the impression they are promising leads???Why would they do that when they know it could put Madeleine at risk???.....

IMO they know all of these sightings are false before they are released. And are not deliberately let out by the mccanns investigators to fool or mislead us, or anyone else. BUT.... maybe they turned a blind eye to the release of these so called leads knowing they were not Madeleine but also knowing that the abductors would be fooled or even relaxed. And also causing a distraction from the real issue...the real leads. They aint breaking laws or misleading people ..infact all they have done is let the media play!!!And while the abductors are put off...its a good thing!!! Plus it gives more coverage for Madeleine!!!
So.....these leads and sightings imo have always been known by the mccanns and their investigators to be wrong...or 'not madeleine'.....this would also explain why the mccanns haven't run to Belgium and Brussels etc each time madeleine as been 'spotted'.

Wonder whats really going on behind the scenes though???Something tels me portugal might be in for another rocking..........as they were with the casa pia case. This could be big...and would need to be properly investigated. Quiet privately and discretely is how they will work. And then one day(soon i hope) BAM......bobs your uncle....And the news is out...the real news.....and the real sighting or rescue of madeleine mccann. With that will come the abductors....And I feel we wont be shocked by them.
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Re: charlotte sees murat at scene then with a guy who she said she also saw at the airport a few days later. looking like the guy in the efit.

Post by Guest on Mon Sep 01, 2008 8:41 am

if i remember right charlotte also saw,this man with murat outside the shop.im sure it was caught on cctv and sent to america.

sian

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Re: charlotte sees murat at scene then with a guy who she said she also saw at the airport a few days later. looking like the guy in the efit.

Post by littleminx on Tue Sep 02, 2008 2:43 am

whilst browzing the net today i came across this link..

http://collaboratingwithfate.blogspot.com/search/label/McCann i have copied and pasted a piece which i think is interesting and have wonderd about myself..

August 12, 2007
What I will say (again) - and this is putting my neck on the line as it is reported he is about to be cleared this week - is that I still believe, despite all the meandering trails, dead ends and false leads that (astrology reveals) Murat is (possibly) involved in this crime. (It appears) he either took Madeleine himself or knows who did. I lean towards the former. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty but if something looks bad and smells bad, it probably is bad. Right from the start of this investigation I have noted significators in the various charts that later, when it emerged Robert Murat was a suspect and his birthdata was revealed, dovetailed precisely.

Italics above added in '08 for legal reasons. Please note all comments here were written when public feelings and opinion was running very high indeed in 2007. It could one day prove wrong or right, everyone is innocent until found gulity in a Court but blogs are about personal expression and these observations are based on astrological charts.

The Portuguese Police obviously had strong reason to cite Murat as an 'Arguido'. The British Police, even all this time down the line, obviously concur with their findings - if it is to be believed that they had a hand in the recent re-searching of Murat's house.

Due to his chart configurations and all the additional circumstantial evidence (see below) it remains my conviction that the Portuguese Police know far more about Murat's involvement than we are being told and Murat should be regarded as prime suspect until there is 100% proof that he was not involved - even if they have to downgrade his status due to their legal system. I also believe that any links to Murat, his family and the McCanns and their friends in Sidmouth, Devon and environs should be ruled out in this investigation.

Here's why and here too is what we know:

1) Murat has a daughter around the same age and physical description of Madeleine and he was missing her presence.
2) Murat lives right next to the 'crime' scene
3) Murat's grandmother was called Madeleine.
4) Murat admits to being mistaken (i.e lying) about a phone call he received late at night on 3rd May with Serge Malinka having earlier said he spoke to no-one except his mother.
5) Murat travelled to Faro and then to England between the the night of the disappearance and his being officially named as a suspect.
6) Murat has strong family links to Sidmouth, Devon (Murat's mother Jennifer was brought up there and his sister lives there) and synchronistically this location (Devon) is where some of the friends on holiday with the McCanns reside. (e.g. Dr Russell O'Brien) Is there any link?

Update: Now another man from Exeter (which is the nearest large town to Sidmouth and the location of the hospital Dr O'Brien works at), has been questioned. He is Jim Gorrod, a keen sailor and solicitor specialising in 'commercial and residential landlord and tenant and freehold disputes as well as property related professional negligence claims'. Murats family were in property. Murat is renovating a family house near Exeter.

Gorrod has been cleared but was on holiday at Praia Da Luz at the same time and a newspaper reports says 'Mr and Mrs Gorrod already knew two of the McCann group, Dr Russell O'Brien and his partner Jane Tanner because they live two streets away in Exeter and have a child of the same age'. That's 3 links to one small town in the UK all in Praia da Luz on 3rd May and all questioned by Police.

Again it doesn't 'smell' right. You may also like to read this from a May 25th newspaper report Ralph Eveleigh, Murat's Uncle, is from Exeter and has a property in Burgau, Portugal. I wonder if Ralph links into all this? I have just looked at my Local Space maps and the Pluto line extends to the North East to Murats house but the same line the other way links to Burgau. This is highly significant. Has Burgau been searched? Indeed have any houses in Exeter been searched? These coincidences must lead to something.

7) The cross aspects between Murat's chart and that of the time of disappearance show major synastric connections as does his chart, Madeleine's birthchart and Gerry's.
8) Madeleine's Local Space Saturn/Pluto lines point directly to Murats property, specifically the garden wall boundary. Pluto Local Space lines often point to dark dealings. Saturn/Pluto to the destruction of property and to harsh conditions and even the end of physical life.(see update above re these lines)
9) Murat's birthchart shows a propensity, that may or may not be acted upon, to impulsive and aggressive actions.

Astrology is not an infallible practice but it can provide good insight. We will just have to see how this story unfolds in coming days. (14 Aug See new update above)


* * * * * *
to read this in full click the link and scroll to the bottom of the page untill u come across a picture of madeleine...
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Re: charlotte sees murat at scene then with a guy who she said she also saw at the airport a few days later. looking like the guy in the efit.

Post by clairesy on Tue Sep 02, 2008 3:05 am

littleminx wrote:whilst browzing the net today i came across this link..

http://collaboratingwithfate.blogspot.com/search/label/McCann i have copied and pasted a piece which i think is interesting and have wonderd about myself..

August 12, 2007
What I will say (again) - and this is putting my neck on the line as it is reported he is about to be cleared this week - is that I still believe, despite all the meandering trails, dead ends and false leads that (astrology reveals) Murat is (possibly) involved in this crime. (It appears) he either took Madeleine himself or knows who did. I lean towards the former. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty but if something looks bad and smells bad, it probably is bad. Right from the start of this investigation I have noted significators in the various charts that later, when it emerged Robert Murat was a suspect and his birthdata was revealed, dovetailed precisely.

Italics above added in '08 for legal reasons. Please note all comments here were written when public feelings and opinion was running very high indeed in 2007. It could one day prove wrong or right, everyone is innocent until found gulity in a Court but blogs are about personal expression and these observations are based on astrological charts.

The Portuguese Police obviously had strong reason to cite Murat as an 'Arguido'. The British Police, even all this time down the line, obviously concur with their findings - if it is to be believed that they had a hand in the recent re-searching of Murat's house.

Due to his chart configurations and all the additional circumstantial evidence (see below) it remains my conviction that the Portuguese Police know far more about Murat's involvement than we are being told and Murat should be regarded as prime suspect until there is 100% proof that he was not involved - even if they have to downgrade his status due to their legal system. I also believe that any links to Murat, his family and the McCanns and their friends in Sidmouth, Devon and environs should be ruled out in this investigation.

Here's why and here too is what we know:

1) Murat has a daughter around the same age and physical description of Madeleine and he was missing her presence.
2) Murat lives right next to the 'crime' scene
3) Murat's grandmother was called Madeleine.
4) Murat admits to being mistaken (i.e lying) about a phone call he received late at night on 3rd May with Serge Malinka having earlier said he spoke to no-one except his mother.
5) Murat travelled to Faro and then to England between the the night of the disappearance and his being officially named as a suspect.
6) Murat has strong family links to Sidmouth, Devon (Murat's mother Jennifer was brought up there and his sister lives there) and synchronistically this location (Devon) is where some of the friends on holiday with the McCanns reside. (e.g. Dr Russell O'Brien) Is there any link?

Update: Now another man from Exeter (which is the nearest large town to Sidmouth and the location of the hospital Dr O'Brien works at), has been questioned. He is Jim Gorrod, a keen sailor and solicitor specialising in 'commercial and residential landlord and tenant and freehold disputes as well as property related professional negligence claims'. Murats family were in property. Murat is renovating a family house near Exeter.

Gorrod has been cleared but was on holiday at Praia Da Luz at the same time and a newspaper reports says 'Mr and Mrs Gorrod already knew two of the McCann group, Dr Russell O'Brien and his partner Jane Tanner because they live two streets away in Exeter and have a child of the same age'. That's 3 links to one small town in the UK all in Praia da Luz on 3rd May and all questioned by Police.

Again it doesn't 'smell' right. You may also like to read this from a May 25th newspaper report Ralph Eveleigh, Murat's Uncle, is from Exeter and has a property in Burgau, Portugal. I wonder if Ralph links into all this? I have just looked at my Local Space maps and the Pluto line extends to the North East to Murats house but the same line the other way links to Burgau. This is highly significant. Has Burgau been searched? Indeed have any houses in Exeter been searched? These coincidences must lead to something.

7) The cross aspects between Murat's chart and that of the time of disappearance show major synastric connections as does his chart, Madeleine's birthchart and Gerry's.
8) Madeleine's Local Space Saturn/Pluto lines point directly to Murats property, specifically the garden wall boundary. Pluto Local Space lines often point to dark dealings. Saturn/Pluto to the destruction of property and to harsh conditions and even the end of physical life.(see update above re these lines)
9) Murat's birthchart shows a propensity, that may or may not be acted upon, to impulsive and aggressive actions.

Astrology is not an infallible practice but it can provide good insight. We will just have to see how this story unfolds in coming days. (14 Aug See new update above)


* * * * * *
to read this in full click the link and scroll to the bottom of the page untill u come across a picture of madeleine...

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

minxy this is brilliant. I to must admit all of the above as been things that i cannot get out of my head either. Im baffled as to why this hasn't been investigated more. It is a small world...but not that bleeding small. What are the odds on 3 separate people from the same place..not knowing eachother but being in the same place at the same time in another country and all being questioned in a missing child case???I must ask at the bookies?? I would imagine to bet on that happening would result in you becoming a very very rich person indeed. Not accusing anyone of course.But you have to admit it is extremely odd to say the very least.
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Re: charlotte sees murat at scene then with a guy who she said she also saw at the airport a few days later. looking like the guy in the efit.

Post by clairesy on Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:41 pm

i brought this thread back to the top ......i remembered Charlotte Fleming saying she had seen Murat with a guy at the airport on the 13th of may,it was the same guy she had seen him with in pdl a couple of days after Madeleine disappeared.

dark haired 27-35 of Portuguese or Spanish appearance.

the reason im bringing it back to the top is because im trying to find more on this.Was anymore said about this guy at the airport with murat?

murat hired a car form a hire company in pdl in the couple of days after Madeleine abduction,he needed it in a hurry and it was the sales persons lunch hour but apparently Murat demanded the car now or he would take his business elsewhere,he said he would wait until after her lunch to have the car,and wanted it now.She allowed him to hire the car.Police later checked that out and confirmed it although they had no idea how many miles he done in the car because the normal procedure where they keep track of the millage done by the person renting a vehicle wasn't carried out on this occasion.

So Charlotte is adamant that Murat was at the ocean club,she spoke with him,he spoke with her mates etc and passed on his mobile number to one of her mates and asked her to contact him if she saw anything strange.He then later denied ever being there the night Madeleine was taken.Hmmmm

Malinka and murat are only business buddies and have no other contact although telephone records shows they did talk the night Madeleine vanish.If thats the case why ism Murat at the scene of the abduction and also making calls to malinka?

where was mallinka at that time? Malinka and murat are not mates,just business dealing months before made them connected.Sp why call a business man at such a late hour? then meet up for lunch shortly after. then MAYBE go to the airport together on the 13th of may.

im wondering who this guy at the airport was and i want to know,surly there is cctv at the airport that could have been viewed form the 13th of may?

i cant stop coming back to these two,im baffled by absolutely everything that's been reported and said about them.Sooo many witnesses place Murat at the ocean club that night although he says he wasn't,that he was at his mums having lunch.If thats the case then ask yourself why he felt the need to call a man who helped him with a business web site 10 months before at god knows what time of a night!!!!!

Records show he called malinka very late that night and spent a long time on the phone.Several phone calls apparently.........Isnt it a bit bizarre to call a person who you do not class as a friend.......... someone who only helped you set up your web site at such a late hour?? what could murat possibly have had to talk about to this man at that time?

he was reported as saying he had lunch(which was suppose to have been a ham sarnie) at around ten and had an early night then.So if hes having an early night why the hell is he on the phone even later than that chatting to malinka?And why do soo many people place a man they have never seen before(murat) at the scene of the abduction that night?

lets put it this way,lets say for example Murat was there(as told by many many folk),and he was helping as a genuine person to find Madeleine etc etc,,,everyone's running around like headless chickens trying to find this child, crying, frantically searching,holiday makers are abandoning their holidays to help the search for a lost child,police are there,people are everywhere ............ murat is trying to help them,there is sooo much going on............and then he suddenly finds time to call malinka?for what?to ask questions about his web page??in the middle of a child abduction he finds the time to talk about his property web page?

im confused,its not adding up.I wanna know if anything else was ever reported or found out about this airport sighting by Charlotte who was that convinced as soon as her flight landed in the uk she contacted uk police.I want to know why such an important thing as not been elaborated on by police or media.Th guy with Murat was surly seen on cctv.who is he?

The sighting by Charlotte was on the 13th of may,she landed, reported it, and on the 14th Murat was made an arguido.
malinka wipes his hard drives etc etc etc etc etc etc etc

then this..........................



minxy........in your last post you copied an article and put it here.In it it reads..........

Everyone is innocent until proven guilty but if something looks bad and smells bad, it probably is bad
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Re: charlotte sees murat at scene then with a guy who she said she also saw at the airport a few days later. looking like the guy in the efit.

Post by allformaddie on Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:39 am

I always thought it odd that Murat telephoned his wife in England and cried, when Madeleine went missing.
Why would he cry?
He stated it was because Madeleine looked so much like his daughter..............seems a bit odd that a man of that age would cry for this reason.
I cried for days, but you would expect that from a mother, wouldnt you?
I have always had my suspicions about Murat and always will.

ann xx

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Re: charlotte sees murat at scene then with a guy who she said she also saw at the airport a few days later. looking like the guy in the efit.

Post by dianeh on Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:46 am

Allformaddie

I agree, my partner was not much interested in what happened to Madeleine, and thought that I had lost my mind because I was upset by it. To be honest i am always upset by any news story that concerns children being harmed, but he knew this one was affecting me even more.

And I noticed that my brothers, father etc, were also not phased by it. Murat must be an extremely sensitive guy, to cry for a child he doesnt even know. Actually, my partner (and the other men in my family) generally get angry when they hear about children being hurt, especially by a crime, not sad.
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Re: charlotte sees murat at scene then with a guy who she said she also saw at the airport a few days later. looking like the guy in the efit.

Post by allformaddie on Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:57 am

My husband was a bit on the fence re the McCanns to begin with.
Then he met John McCann and changed his point of view within minutes of being in his company.

He lives about 10 minutes from my house and I saw him recently in Morrisons. My hubby said that his car was full of posters etc of Madeleine, and that he was genuinely upset about her being missing and that they were doing everything possible to help find her.

This you would expect from a family member not from a stranger like Murat.

ann xx

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Re: charlotte sees murat at scene then with a guy who she said she also saw at the airport a few days later. looking like the guy in the efit.

Post by Rosie on Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:58 am

Me too I am afraid, I simply have a lot of trouble that upwards of 8 eye witnesses who place Murat at the scene got it wrong!

I am not suggesting that if he was there that there was anything wrong with it, but I cannot understand how the PJ allowed him to change his story and one of his friends Tuck Price gave him a false alibi. It is even on the police files somewhere that the PJ even think Murat was lying about where he was that night!

This person is also convinced all is not right. And his persistent stumbling over his family connections is with Sally Murat is another thing that gets to me. If you have not watched and read this I would recommend that you do!

http://eyesforlies.blogspot.com/2008/09/robert-murat-what-are-you-thinking.html

he said he went to bed early that night at around 10pm and never heard the commotion going on outside for ages in a normal quiet place? this is another oddity. Also he gave an interview to vanity fair, where he stated that he went to bed in the early hours, so he contradicted his own story, yet again!

It may turn out to be that he was terrified of being fitted up by the Portuguese police, after all he knows them well and so does his mother, who said she set a roadside stall up to appeal for information on Madeleine, in case people were too scared to talk to the police! That always seemed an odd thing to say, that is still the case!

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Re: charlotte sees murat at scene then with a guy who she said she also saw at the airport a few days later. looking like the guy in the efit.

Post by jean on Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:31 am

Murat is guilty of something - if it's not the actual abduction of Madeleine then it is something about her. I have thought that he was hiding something from day one. I also thought it was strange that he and his girlfriend got married on the beach. It was as though there was some sinister message in that action. They certainly aren't suffering now, living on the proceeds of the '14 months of hell'. Quite a good return for a nights work!!!!!!

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Re: charlotte sees murat at scene then with a guy who she said she also saw at the airport a few days later. looking like the guy in the efit.

Post by clairesy on Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:44 pm

HI jean,

when did Murat marry his German bit on the side?I don't remember him getting any news coverage although i would imagine he would have avoided that at AL costs!LOL.Maybe they went through a drive through or something in Texas and exchanged vows!LOL.

I am sure though that i read somewhere he got his payout and immediately had a make over and building work done n the home he lives in with his mum.Not sure i could be wrong.Wouldn't he of preferred to buy his own home now hes married and spend the cash on that rather than carry out building work on his mums house?

i to have not been able to drop him from my mind where Madeleine is concerned.Of course he could very well be totally innocent have no knowledge at all of the abduction,where she is, or who could have done this etc.But im far to concerned about all the contradictions with this part of the investigation to be able to drop him from my mind.Malinka to.......................
For a guy who as not been mentioned as much in the media i think he could be higher up the ladder where this case is concerned than we are led to believe so.

The missing puzzle pieces that will make this case a clearer picture are here somewhere its just putting them altogether.The detectives think the answer lies within luz.The small quiet town.

SMALL SMALl SMAll SMall Small small......................how many people in that small place could be holding the lost pieces of this investigation. Im still reading more on those calls with malinka and murat,and also why he would choose to call malinka and vice versa at such a late hour during a child abduction investigation when they are not friends,and have not(so they said) seen or spoken to to each other for months and months.The last time they spoke or had any contact was for malinka ( the it expert) to set up a website for Murat property business.That was a lie though wasn't it? ........and they called each other the night Madeleine was abducted,infact it was reported the calls started around the time Madeleine was discovered missing..Murat was suppose to be in bed,he was having an early night???His mum i think had gone to walk the dog after they had supper together and on her return she says he was in bed..well atleast he wasn't still pottering about the house thats for sure.
She usually walked the dog with an ex police man(thats what she was suppose to have said in another report)They met regular and always walked their dogs together..........where was he that night?Was he there to?Or were the walks they took together just in the mornings whih was when murats mum states she saw odd behaviour at a nearby villa....did the ex cop also see that odd behaviour or was it just her who saw It??After all he walked with her each morning.

What confuses me though is this.....................................lets just say for hypothetical reasons that they(murat and malinka) were connected to Madeleine's abduction in some way.Why would they call each other only on that night?Surly there were other calls before...........Unless they had met up to talk before.
Why would he have called him late that night,but not at any other time?It was reported that they called eachother several times after madeleine was snatched that night.I have not heard it reported that there were calls made between them before that time, and if the police had the phone records from them both surly they would also be able to see if they had made calls previous to the 3rd of may or after that date?
Could that mean the reports about the calls between the pair are false,and that they hadn't even called each other.Or could it be that again the pj failed to investigate the whole thing properly and didn't check calls earlier than the 3rd of may 2007?

oh yer.............im sure i read a report before that murats mum knew nothing about the abduction until the next morning,both of them apparently learned of madeleine's abduction the following day.However im also sure that murats mum walked the dog that night,infact i would put money on reading it.She was reported to have had supper with Murat and then he was suppose to have gotten an early night and then his mum walked the dog.If so why didn't she know about the abduction until the following day?There were hundreds of people searching crying screaming,police etc all over,and she fails to see that? but the next morning shes up bright and early and parked right on the beach front with her stall set up in order to collect important information about the case from tourists or locals who are to scared to go to police!!!!

im confused,nd im also confused as to why police seem to think there are more contradictions in the statements of the tapas than there are in the statements and goings ons with the Murat family.

Murat met kennedy?or clarence at some point during the months following Madeleine's abduction....what was that about? id love to know,have always wanted to know what the reason for that meeting was.
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Re: charlotte sees murat at scene then with a guy who she said she also saw at the airport a few days later. looking like the guy in the efit.

Post by jean on Sat Jun 13, 2009 11:42 am

Hi Clare - Murat and his strange lady friend got married on the beach at Praia da Luz, that is why I made the comment about it being weird. (I wonder if her ex was best man!!!) I'll try and find the article from the paper and post it tomorrow. As far as Brian Kennedy's meeting with Murat is concerned, I think he went to see him to find out what actually happened on the night of 3 May. I don't believe the latest news which states that he has withdrawn his offer of funds, especially after him saying that he would finance the McCanns until Madeleine was found.

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