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Is Madeleine's Abduction Linked To Casa Pia?

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Is Madeleine's Abduction Linked To Casa Pia?

Post by Rosie on Sun Aug 17, 2008 10:13 pm

SHAME OF THE COUNTRY WHERE MADELEINE VANISHED.

Ths Casa Pia trial hears children were 'delivered' to perverts.

The Disappearance of Madeleine McCann may be linked to a paedophile ring that allegedly reaches deep into the heart of Portugal's political and show business elite.

The country's government is rocked by a child-sexual abuse scandal centred in the capital Lisbon and which fanned out across the country.

A court has been told scores of vulnerable children were taken from the Casa Pia orphanage in Lisbon to be sexually abused by those in the alleged paedophile network. Investigations by the Sunday Express have shown that children were taken to the homes of wealthy people in the Algarve and to a particular house in the South of the country for abuse lasting for days.

Now a lawyer who helped uncover the scandal, Pedro Namora, 44, says Portuguese authorities should investigate the possibility that people on the fringes of the network could have abducted Madeleine from her parents' holiday apartment in Praia da Luz on the Algarve in May 2007.
He said: "We have suffered a huge paedophile problem with more than 100 children involved. We know that children were taken from Lisbon to a house in the south of the country for abuse by several people.
"We also know that during the summer children were taken to the summer homes of paedophiles on the Algarve. it was highly organised and involved a lot of planning and control. It is possible that in some way those connected with the ring who have not been caught may be involved in Madeleine's disappearance. I think it unlikely but I do think detectives should look at this possibility. No stone should be left unturned"


When top Lisbon detective Paulo Rebelo took over the Madeleine case he reportedly took with him two detectives who worked closely with him on the Casa Pia investigation. He has refused to say if there is any evidence to link the cases.

Mr Rebelo examined allegations that hundreds of of Portuguese orphans were abused over a period of some 20 years. Ten people were arrested, including socialist politician Paulo Pedrosa, the former secretary of State for Social Affairs. He was held in custody for four months before charges were dropped.
He has vowed to rebuild his career, says he was wrongly accused and is reportedly considering suing the Portuguese government.

An investigating magistrate also threw out the case against popular TV comedian Herman Jose', who owns a fashionable restaurant in Lisbon, and marine archaeologist Francisco Alves. Seven men are on trial in Lisbon in a case that has lasted four years. They include a former ambassador, Jorge Ritto, and Carlos Cruz, a gameshow host adored by millions of Portuguese women.
Six deny all the allegations. The man at the centre of the case, Casa Pia caretaker Carlos Silvino, has admitted more than 600 offences but has been freed on bail - with a 24-hour armed guard. Silvino, 49, was known as Bibi to the boys and girls in his care at the state-run orphanage.

He prayed on them, spiriting them away in the night to the homes of rich and powerful men who allegedly used them as sexual playthings.

In an exclusive interview, Silvino's lawyer Jose' Martins told the Sunday Express: "My client has agreed to help the prosecutors by detailing exactly what happened and who was involved. He admits he was a procurer of children for others and that he took part in the abuse."

Mr Namora was himself taken to the orphanage when he was seven. The Sunday Express took him back to his former home and as he looked at his old dormitory through iron gates he was close to tears.

He said: "We all dreaded it when Bibi started prowling at night. We only had a curtain between our beds so we could hear everything.
"Bibi would look around and then pick a child, usually one who was sleeping. He would pick the boy up in his arms and take him to his room or to someone on the outside. It went on most nights. Everyone lived in fear."

Clarence Mitchell, spokesman for Kate and Gerry McCann, said there was no firm evidence that Madeleine had been taken by paedophiles but clearly that was an avenue of inquiry that private investigators were looking into.

No one at Casa Pia, the Portuguese police HQ, the Attorney General's office or the Ministry of Justice was willing to speak about Casa Pia - two words that will haunt the upper echelons of Portuguese society for years to come.



This report is in the paper version of the 'Sunday Express' . It covers something that I have suggested many times, the possibility that Madeleine's abduction could have been carried out by those on the fringes of the Casa Pia scandal. I have made no secret that I think this could be the case and without dredging up my reasons (you all know them) this is why I always had the sense that Madeleine was still in Portugal, I have felt this very strongly until a month back.

I have always thought that Madeleine's abduction led off in areas 'unseen' to us. Too many things did not add up. I flatly refuse to believe that detectives who have supposedly been to university and have degrees in law could hold such a ramshackle, Keystone Kop like investigation by accident. How can you explain blunder after blunder after blunder? How can you explain a top detective who gets a call that a little foreign national has disappeared from her bed at night from her parent's holiday apartment, yet does not bother to attend the scene?

I have always felt that the explanation of Madeleine's disappearance when it comes, will be quite simple, and not in any way shape or form like the bizarre and convoluted way the former lead detective on the case, Goncalo Amaral, has tried to have people believe in his fanciful toilet paper book.

People may think this is unlikely, however, I had heard of Casa Pia and I went researching it and I was absolutely dumbfounded to see that this case, far from being over, was actually ongoing. What came up in the researching was really frightening and because of the way this abuse has allegedly been carried out, this could tie in with how Madeleine was abducted. I wondered this because unfortunately we all have to admit to ourselves that people that carry out his kind of abuse of children rarely just stop, the only way they are stopped, is if they are imprisoned and physically kept away from children.
So it was only a small step to wonder if the people that were used to their sickening never ending supply of little children, were now casting their evil nets wider. I wondered if this was happening and if people were being paid to turn a blind eye and i wondered also if there were people touring the Algarve holiday destinations "spotting" suitable children and looking for children that had been requested. however, distasteful this is, it happens and unless we all stand together and admit these heinous practices go on and unite against them, then they will never be beaten. Ignoring a problem will NOT make it go away.

I also wonder why Mr Paulo Rebelo who led the Madeleine investigation, refuses to comment if there could be a possible connection between these two cases. If there is not, why not a short abrupt sentence and stop this in its tracks? "No there is not a link between these two cases, end of story". Why not say it? Here again, we have Portugal's archaic secrecy law stoking a fire that maybe could have been doused.

In my opinion, I think there could be a link between Casa Pia and Madeleine's abduction, it fits far better than anything else I have read. Is it taking lateral thinking a little too far to think that just maybe there could be a massive cover up going on? Especially when you realise that if anything like this ever became known, it would no doubt have the propensity to decimate Portugal's £2.8 billion tourist industry.

This very brave lady's words chilled me. Former Governess of Casa Pia in Lisbon, Catalina Pestana, says she has “no doubts that (sexual) abuses are still going on” within the institution.

If people like her are saying this, i do not doubt that it is still happening and if it is still happening, unfortunately, I do not not think that it is too far a bridge to cross to think that these two cases could be linked and Madeleine and every other child deserves that this possibility is pursued to the bitter end and ruled out.
One thing I would add, if this is the case then Madeleine could still be very much alive and this is in line with what I have been saying all along about this case. It is one thing for these people to abduct a child, it is quite another for them to actually murder that child and I do not not think they would do this, so to me, Madeleine could still be very much alive being kept against her will. I just hope that she is being kept without the abuse continuing. This is why I get so angry that this case was shelved back in June 2007, why? All this time wasted blaming her parents could have been concentrated on finding this child. None of it adds up, none of it.

Something deep and sinister happened in Praia da Luz on the evening of May 3rd 2007, something is not right and it all just doesn't stack up and I believe that it will come out, in the end, whatever it is, it will emerge and I think the process has already started. I wish the new investigators that Kate and Gerry McCann have hired Godspeed, because through them, I firmly believe that we are going to find little Madeleine McCann. When this happens it is my opinion that the shock waves that will hit Portugal, will be monumental.
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Re: Is Madeleine's Abduction Linked To Casa Pia?

Post by clairesy on Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:12 am

Hi rosie,

Myself and minxy have been on about casa pia for months and months and months........ right back in august lat year etc.
The case stinks and involves loads of Portuguese officials.We have always wondered about wheather there is a connection with madeleine.And have said loads of times she could have been abducted by people in connection with this on th fringes.

Carlos Silvino is just one of those reported to be involved in that sick hell hole of a place. Think he was the one who drove the children to their abusers etc.

One man in his 30's...said(back in June last year) That he would be paraded around in the nude etc in front of top Portuguese officials when he was a child.They would take the kids, line them up and chose which one they wanted to abuse. He said that they were mostly doctors, lawyers, cops, etc etc.....one doctor would take blood from the kids to establish that they weren't ill or carrying any diseases before being abused. Some of the kids who had nits, or who had a positive blood result would just disapear...he said he didn't know what happened to those children they weren't seen again.

These abusers are mainly officials. Carlos Silvino was reported to have said to a journalist ...they wont have me for anything as there are too many top people involved in this.

I think the FBI and CID etc will be looking into this matter and hopefully can help other children to...maybe joana yeremi, and rui pedro(?)to.

Something tells me that when they find Madeline's they will find other children.Casa pia isn't over by a long shot...and the ex governess expressed her concerns about the place only 6 months after Madeleine was snatched.

With marc dutrox having connections to top Portuguese officials I wonder if maybe this casa pia is a part of a massive international peadophile ring...And I wouldn't be surprised if the reason oliver shanti was found hiding in portugal was due to the fact he knows people there who can lead him to a place where he can feed his sick mind.


I will be watching the casa pia findings very closely for further details.I think they are onto something here....some say there isnt a connection to madeleine...I say there is.


Last edited by Rosiepops on Sat Apr 04, 2009 11:01 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Forum Revamp)
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Re: Is Madeleine's Abduction Linked To Casa Pia?

Post by maria on Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:41 am

Claire

I'll be back to this subject, I just came home from a friend's burial, excuse me.

But there is something I want to correct straight away, as it makes all the difference: it is not Carlos Cruz who used to drive the kids, it was Carlos Silvino also known as Bibi (read beebee).
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Re: Is Madeleine's Abduction Linked To Casa Pia?

Post by Mandz on Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:56 am

The police errors & leaks make me very suspicious so who knows?
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Re: Is Madeleine's Abduction Linked To Casa Pia?

Post by clairesy on Mon Aug 18, 2008 6:01 am

Thats right maria,there are two of them....wasn't sure which one drove the children to their fate!!

I feel that a connection may well surface shortly.Maybe not directly with the actual casa pia home but with those who were involved there. Those who abuse children don't change and will no doubt still be abusing now.Maybe not at the home,but most certainly somewhere else.

Hopefully they will be brought down with the FBI and CID being involved.Someone knows where madeleine is.Joana and madeleine both gone and disappeared form the face of the earth...or so it appears.But maybe well hidden and protected by those who are suppose to be searching for her|???

I have been trying to suss out the reasons for a lot of failures in this case.To make a few mistakes is one thing...but to completely make a shambles of a 3 year old girls abduction is extremely odd.Especially given the failures seem to have lies attached to them .Its not a mistake if theres a lie there....its a delibret act to conceal the truth.
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Re: Is Madeleine's Abduction Linked To Casa Pia?

Post by littleminx on Mon Aug 18, 2008 6:05 am

lets just hope and pray the mccanns new pi,s take a look at this too!! and while they doing that they could take a look at certain members of the pj and lets not rule out mr r and malinka because no matter how i try to forget these two i just cant something just niggles me.
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Casa Pia

Post by dianeh on Mon Aug 18, 2008 9:55 am

I personally dont think that the people involved in Casa Pia were involved with Madeleine's abduction. Unlike Rosie, I think it completely likely that a certain copper is so self absorbed and inept, that he single handedly wrecked this investigation, and that he is still trying to cover his backside, so to me it is unlikely that he is part of a larger conspiracy. But that doesnt rule out another copper (bagman for eg) that may have had an involvement with the b*****ds in Casa Pia. In fact, I dont rule it out at all (a link with Casa Pia, and Joanna) but it just doesnt feel right.

However, I think that is it a possibility and therefore needs to be fully investigated. After all, until we know what happened to Madeleine, then all avenues should be fully explored. Because if that is where Madeleine is, if no one looks for her there, she will not be found.

And I will clarify by saying that it is a far greater possibility than Madeleine having been killed by her parents, or abducted by another member of the Tapas 7, or the ridiculous wandering off theory. Both of which seem to be investigated as real possibilities by the PJ.
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Re: Is Madeleine's Abduction Linked To Casa Pia?

Post by Rosie on Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:30 am

It is the only thing that actually feels credible to me. It all seems to fit in with her being watched by this person with white van who seen by at least two witnesses. It is quite possible that her abductors had Madeleine in mind because of the particular apartment she was staying in. They watched and waited and took their chance, they nearly got caught and had to hide in the apartment when Gerry came in to check the children. Gerry checked and left again. The abductor was always going to leave by the patio doors and I think the van was going to drive up and pick them up from there using the road that ran right along side of the aprtment which was immediately down the steps and through the gate. However Gerry and Jes Wilkins standing in the road talking scuppered this plan and so Madeleine was passed out of the window and the abductor was forced to walk down the street with the child. This is when Jane Tanner saw him. The abductors were never going to bring the van up to the car park because the chances of being seen by so many different people overlooking the car park and getting caught would have been extremely high. I bet it is as simple as this.
This may very well have been carried out by people on the fringes of Casa Pia, after all it was carried out by someone. Paedophiles do not just stop, they have to be made to stop.
These people slipped up because they have probably got away with this kind of thing before and they just did not bargain on the ensuing furore.

Probably those that wanted this covered up were totally shocked and really really incensed that Sky News was contacted and this is why these parents have been attacked so badly, it has all been one huge long diversion tactic, to divert attention away from really happened and what really lurks beneath the surface in Portugal. I hope to God that the new investigators go down this line but I have every confidence that they will and am especially reassured by what Clarence Mitchell has said about the possibility that Madeleine may have been taken by these people must be ruled out.

It is quite possible that a certain inept copper is doing all those things Diane mentioned too.

I just find it hard to believe that a person can go to university, gain a degree in law, work as a police detective for so many years and then suddenly get the only two cases of abduction he has investigated comprehensively wrong and make repeated blunders, how can he do this? It just makes no sense at all. it is not as if the occasional blunder was made, it was repeated mistake after mistake after mistake. Even the GNR were raising their eyebrows at the PJ! No one can make that many mistakes in one single investigation and it may have helped if one of them, the man in charge actually bothered to turn up to the scene, instead of wasting those first few precious Golden hours after an abduction. How on earth could he conduct this investigation over the telephone? He needed to be there to get a feel for it and he failed in his duty, he should be sued for gross dereliction of duty.

With all that is being learned about the state of paedophilia in Portugal now, I am seriously wondering what the hell is going on there and just who and what is involved.

In my opinion I think the McCann's were the victims of an attempted set up which went badly wrong because people would not shut up about it. If Kate and Gerry had not been so tenacious and if there was not all this publicity and people like us were not around to keep shouting, then I dread to think what may have happened to this couple.
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Post by dianeh on Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:51 am

As you know, I dont rule out any of the possibilities. And although I do think that a certain copper is completely self absorbed, arrogant and inept, and if past performance is any guarantee, then the abductors could be confident that he couldnt find his own bum with either of his hands. But that doesnt say I completely rule out additional corruption or involvement on his or any of the other PJ's part. I truly have an open mind on this.

Your post makes perfect sense to me, and your explanation of the abduction is very plausible. Far more plausible than the cow poo that was written in the official report. It is just the connection with Casa Pia that I am not convinced about. However, as I said below, I dont rule it out. And one thing about this is that Portugal is a very small country, and the paedophile community is very secretive and closed, so perhaps there is a connection.
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Re: Is Madeleine's Abduction Linked To Casa Pia?

Post by maria on Mon Aug 18, 2008 6:44 pm

clairesy wrote:I feel that a connection may well surface shortly.Maybe not directly with the actual casa pia home but with those who were involved there. Those who abuse children don't change and will no doubt still be abusing now.Maybe not at the home,but most certainly somewhere else.

I have been trying to suss out the reasons for a lot of failures in this case.To make a few mistakes is one thing...but to completely make a shambles of a 3 year old girls abduction is extremely odd.Especially given the failures seem to have lies attached to them .Its not a mistake if theres a lie there....its a delibret act to conceal the truth.

Claire

I've always 'denied' the connection, the distance, modus operandi and gender told me to. Although I know these scumbags go far away to get their victims, are 'inventive' and only slightly choosy. I am opening up to the hypothesis though. Much to my discomfort, to say the least.
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Re: Is Madeleine's Abduction Linked To Casa Pia?

Post by maria on Mon Aug 18, 2008 7:54 pm

Rosie

I never 'bought' the version of getting out through the window. It is just too small, therefore hard and risky. I believe all the children were slightly drugged (chloroform or the alike) and the window was opened to release any remaining odour. I believe the way out was through the front door, and indeed the way in as well. I believe the door was unlocked although closed. Moving through the patio door would be visible from Tapas I think. And much harder to open and even to close with a child in your arms. Sliding doors are usually heavy and there is no handle on the outside. And if Gerry was that close he surely would have heard the noise, I think. Another thing that puzzles me is that, if Gerry took 5 or ten minutes chatting, this simply is not enough time for the abductor to do the full 'job', change minds on the way out and already be outside when Jane passed by 'him'.

I am having a hard time accepting that a certain inept copper did all these things, but that is my problem, isn't it?

The fact he went trhough university etc doesn't mean a thing. And the fact that he blew the two only cases of missing children that came his way neither. How many other cases of other types has he blown? That's the question. You know, Moita Flores -- former PJ investigator, currently 'criminal fiction' writer, president of a local authority (Santarém) in the opposition to the government, expressing his opinion of political interference, criminal commentator for several media-- assures he knows well the PJ's officers working in this case and they are 'clever like foxes', even 'ruse users'(don't know the words for these two characteristics). So, someone who knows them doesn't say they are professional, intelligent, commited, serious, honest, etc. Actually, I don't believe he is either.

By the way, where is that information that he investigated from home? Cause I think he said he went there, organised everything and only then went home as 'he was the boss' and it was up to the people reporting to him to carry the work for him.
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