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Did a Policeman kidnap Madeleine

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Re: Did a Policeman kidnap Madeleine

Post by Guest on Tue Sep 09, 2008 2:03 am

Did a policeman kidnap Madeleine?

The more I read and learn about this case, the more I believe this is a very pertinent question to ask and debate. It seems a very profitable exercise to write books about missing little girls - some might view that as contributing to a possible motive. Afterall, you don't even have to wait for the investigation to be finished to get into print and strut around like some C list movie star looking for publicity. Pathetic Amaral and that greasy slime ball Christavao have both had a nice little earner out of the two tragic disappearances. I simply cannot get over the coincidences these cases throw up - particularly the way they were investigated and imo the way the families were set up.

Both these bent coppers (again my opinion) are Arguidos and rightly so, along with the other three of their ex team. Amaral and Christavao and their actions, have brought shame and suspicion on Portugal and I hope they will be brought to account for their criminal actions and corruption, openly and in public. I agree with Rosiepops that Amarals motives for the route he forced the investigation to take, should be thoroughly and formally looked into. Portugal deserves to have its good name restored and until it is seen to deal fairly and openly with the above, I cannot see that happening.

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Re: Did a Policeman kidnap Madeleine

Post by maria on Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:49 am

China

More or less at the same time Cristovăo wrote his 'Start of Madeleine' was published another book (March 2008) by Barra da Costa former PJ chief inspector for 30 years and currently teaching several subjects related to criminology in different colleges and university. This book titled 'Maddie, Joana and the criminal investigation - the hidden truth'. As the tittle says, it is a book on the investigation - and not flattering for anybody, really. He does not speculate, as that is not investigation but he raises some clues worth to explore in my opinion. I'll try to find a thread where to put some bits of this book, so conveniently 'forgot' by the media and investigative organisations.
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Re: Did a Policeman kidnap Madeleine

Post by Guest on Wed Sep 10, 2008 6:31 am

maria wrote:China

More or less at the same time Cristovăo wrote his 'Start of Madeleine' was published another book (March 2008) by Barra da Costa former PJ chief inspector for 30 years and currently teaching several subjects related to criminology in different colleges and university. This book titled 'Maddie, Joana and the criminal investigation - the hidden truth'. As the tittle says, it is a book on the investigation - and not flattering for anybody, really. He does not speculate, as that is not investigation but he raises some clues worth to explore in my opinion. I'll try to find a thread where to put some bits of this book, so conveniently 'forgot' by the media and investigative organisations.

Thanks Maria,

I look forward to reading more about this, when you have time.

flower

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Barra da costas Book!

Post by Guest on Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:56 am

Hi Maria, is this the same Barra da Costa as Jose Barra da costa who stated he had info the McCanns were swingers?

JOSE BARRA da COSTA
Former Policia Judiciaria
"There are people who guarantee that this is a couple who practice 'swinging' - i.e. sexual relationships between couples and then changing partners, and that this practice would allow in this type of...
BILTON: When you say: "there are people who say..." I'm assuming you are quoting....
DA COSTA: People who know obviously. I cannot reveal the source here because I would lose it. "

Taken from "Transcript: The Mystery of Madeleine McCann "

Source- http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/7106086.stm

--- If so, I have no interest whatsoever in anything he may have written subsequently, this was one of the first smears against the McCanns which then started the ball rolling. As far as I'm concerned, there are too many people making money from writing books and peddling their thoughts on TV ,off the back of this poor child.

If this is a different Barra da costa, then I appologise and will wind my neck in accordingly. :oops:

Jak.

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Multiples!!!!!

Post by Guest on Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:59 am

So sorry, thought it was my end!! :oops: Useless at this stuff!! :D

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Hi Jak!

Post by Tinkerbell43 on Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:22 am

I dont know, you come on here causing chaos, lol. No worries, I have deleted the multiples. BTW long time no see, nice to see you around, hope you are keeping well. flower
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Hi Jak

Post by Rosie on Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:41 am

I wonder is this a done thing in Portugal? Police investigate a crime, never bring it to a satisfactory conclusion instead they write book about them and make money for their personal use.

If it is the same man then I remember him on TV suggesting that the McCann's were swingers and thought it was utterly unprofessional too.

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POLICE KIDNAPPERS?

Post by Royal on Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:06 pm

How ya doing Rosie, now why would the PJ contemplate kidnapping, in fact do they have time to indulge in such behaviour seeing as from what I heard they spend all their time either supping in bars, leaning against palm trees smoking and chatting with fellow officers, or sitting in their cars out of the rain watching the world go by when they were supposed to be looking for kidnappers during border checks. Mind you, a certain Mr Amaral being a senior officer and spared such time consuming duties could I suppose idle away his time seeking other forms of entertainment?? and I'm not suggesting for one moment... but who knows he would certainly have plenty of time and opportunity to indulge in other perverted fantasies (such as writing fictional books for instance) as there would be no chance of 'him' being questioned or stopped at any check points, even if there were any. This is all hypothetical nonesense of course, or is it?
Alroy.

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Rosie and Jak

Post by maria on Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:49 pm

Hi Rosie and Jak

From what I read, yes, it is the same. And no, I am VERY interested on what he says. First, because he really knows about criminal investigation and these two investigations, Joana and Madeleine, in particular. Second, because these words were taken totally out of context and he is extremely ironic, has to be read and listened carefully. Third, he did not start the swing smear, he says 'There are people who guarantee that this is a couple who practice 'swinging'. People who know obviously. I cannot reveal the source here because I would lose it.' (the non underlined bit IS the ironic one). Fourth, because he is highly critical about the way these two investigations (and Casa Pia as well) were carried out. Fifth, because he is not wellcome by the 'system', having even been threatened with an inquiry (unlike Amaral!!!) and been thrown out of all media (again, unlike Amaral!!!). Sixth, because he DID NOT write a book on the process, but on the INVESTIGATION that built this process. Seventh, he was NEVER thrown out of any investigation or the police.

Before anything else, he is a cop. And his book is intended for internal consumption, as it is an acidic critics of our real situation on justice in general. Also, his views on the social and political reasons on why things are as they are.

I dare to (try to) translate two sentences from the preface written by Pinto da Costa, university professor and specialist in forensic medicine: '[...] Maddie's and Joana's cases are taken here to call attention to what a modern criminal investigation should be.[...] And if everything happened as the book tells us it has, perhaps we should honnour ourselves with unmeasurable shame of being pacific, amorphous spectators and actors of this staging.[...]'.

And about the swingging and possible source that could not be revealed, I would suggest you to read the article published 09/09/2008 in Joana Morais site, which is, as you know, the online channel for Amaral. But take some anti-sickness pills before.


Last edited by maria on Wed Sep 10, 2008 10:06 pm; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : wrong addressee, missing info,typo)
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Re: Did a Policeman kidnap Madeleine

Post by Guest on Thu Sep 11, 2008 3:29 am

So it really was Costa who first began to spread this rumour and he speaks about his sources.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/panorama/7106086.stm


JOSE BARRA da COSTA
Former Policia Judiciaria
There are people who guarantee that this is a couple who practice 'swinging' - i.e. sexual relationships between couples and then changing partners, and that this practice would allow in this type of...

BILTON: When you say: "there are people who say..." I'm assuming you are quoting....

DA COSTA: People who know obviously. I cannot reveal the source here because I would lose it.

BILTON: The Portuguese police publicly disowned the allegation, also denied by the McCanns. But such stories are damaging. Then within weeks at a press conference in Germany, this question to the McCanns?


http://www.anorak.co.uk/madeleine-mccann/177377.html

“COPS PROBE SEX SMEARS – Couple in fury over ‘swinging’ rumours”

Former police inspector Jose Barra da Costa wants police to investigate allegations of wife-swapping

Says Clarence Mitchell: “It is obviously defamatory and he – and all those who spread rumours like this – had better be aware that our lawyers are watching”


So WHO is "Jose Barra de Costa". More names.

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Re: Did a Policeman kidnap Madeleine

Post by maria on Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:36 am

Minnea

NO, it wasn't him. You should know better by now about Amaral and the media in general. Anyway, I'm absolutely sure that the portuguese lawyers will know what to do and who to sue.

Barra da Costa is a former dully retired PJ chief inspector (for 30 years), criminology and criminal investigation professor, with a reasonably impressive curriculum.

The book I am quoting has 267 pages on Joana and Madeleine cases criminal investigation, and it is not flattering to whoever made those investigations, I assure you.
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Re: Did a Policeman kidnap Madeleine

Post by Guest on Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:50 am

Maria.

Yes, it was him. He was first, who began talk about "swinging".

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Re: Did a Policeman kidnap Madeleine

Post by Guest on Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:05 am

maria wrote:Minnea

NO, it wasn't him. You should know better by now about Amaral and the media in general. Anyway, I'm absolutely sure that the portuguese lawyers will know what to do and who to sue.

Barra da Costa is a former dully retired PJ chief inspector (for 30 years), criminology and criminal investigation professor, with a reasonably impressive curriculum.

The book I am quoting has 267 pages on Joana and Madeleine cases criminal investigation, and it is not flattering to whoever made those investigations, I assure you.

Actually Maria,

With respect, I think quite a few of us are confused/unsure about this man now. Minnea is not Portuguese, but like many posters, has followed the case closely. I, like Rosiepops, remember seeing an interview where someone - either pj or ex pj, repeated those allegations, which were broadcast around the world and were dreadfully damaging and detrimental to Kate & Gerry and the search for Madeleine. I remember thinking at the time, that it appeared to be a purposeful attempt to place the parents and their holiday companions in a very bad light and was the source of much discussion on the internet and in the media, as a consequence.

Do you know if the person who gave that tv interview is the same person. If so, do you feel that the language interpretation of the tv broadcast was not accurate, or out of context somehow?

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China

Post by maria on Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:21 pm

Hi!

I dont' think there can be two people with the same name interested in the same theme and high profile enough to be interviewd by whoever. So, yes I think we are talking about the same person.

I do not think though that he started ANY smear, he just quoted something and, as usual in all interviews, he wasn't allowed to fully explain his position. And as we are at it, and to illustrate what I am trying to say I will tell you what I watched in portuguese television, as I watched the WHOLE incident: at SIC station the resident crime commentator is Moita Flores, also former PJ now dedicated to write criminal fiction and a politician, the most fervent Amaral supporter. One day, he was talking about the dogs and totally speculating on where they should be taken as possible places to hide a cadaver (including the beach but putting aside spots previously pointed in the scrubland) and then he added something like 'not to mention the church. Let's hope she (Kate) hasn't taken the child there, we would never find her, and the dogs would go mad because, as you know, there seemingly have been many corpses in a church and in the past they were buried inside churches'. Next day, on RTP1, Barra da Costa was being interviewed about the investigation and asked about the dogs he said something like 'I heard that the church could be a good place to hide a corpse. Being the dogs so good at identifying who is dead and who isn't, it seems to me that someone could even consider taking them there'. Next, he was quoted by everybody, including Moita Flores, as having suggested a dog search to the church. Most of you being british, I hope you can understand the irony of Barra da Costa's comment. Or may be I didn't express it very well though.
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Re: Did a Policeman kidnap Madeleine

Post by Guest on Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:51 pm

Irony? No, I don't think it was irony and I never seen any kind of irony in comments of PJ officers. But I have seen lot of lies and disgusting, nasty comments and these comments of Costa belong to same category as comments of Amaral, Christovao, Monteiro and Anjos. There seems to be very systematic group against Madeleine's parents in Portugal and they are all very powerful people.

No it is not only Amaral, it is the whole system behind him.


Last edited by Minnea on Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:01 am; edited 1 time in total

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Kidnapped by Police?

Post by Guest on Fri Sep 12, 2008 1:02 am

Vee, cast your mind back a few months on the vm boards. Can you remember what I said?

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Re: Did a Policeman kidnap Madeleine

Post by janeGT on Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:56 am

sorry minnea

I have not been on to see this....

I have read posts after mine, and no, this is not in any way the same man, and Yes I do have a name I am not prepared to put here. If you google playground mccanns, the whole photo comes up or try other phrases. I have always been most MOST concerned about this policeman with tattoo on wrist seen around children....he is in the gnr. his name is public. I am not going to be the one to publicise it, but I have know it for over a year now. I am most uncomfortable with it all.

You will find out very very easily on the net by googling it. If I get a link I will post ONLY that. He is the one facing the camera with gerry and madeleine playing and another child from the tapas 7 with them. I assumed Kate was taking the photo, and he was looking directly at her. Meantime another male ducked under the play apparatus, clearly shown when photo magnified. It has been all over the press and the net for well over a year and caused many many many people to question this man.

AS I DO BIG TIME.

He is a friend of Murat and Malinka.

I am not prepared on a public blog to say anymore. You can find out easily from what I have said. This is not opinion, it is fact. pure and simple.
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Barra da Costa

Post by Guest on Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:06 am

Hi Maria,

Thanks for confirming that, I really respect your opinions and enjoy your posts, so hope you don't feel I am trying in any way to undermine you. I understand your interest in Barra da Costas book, as he is held
in high esteem and is also a very accomplished investigator . But this is also the reason why
I find his statements about swinging completely unethical and quite disturbing.

He was interviewed (by many news agencies) because of his standing, within weeks of Madeleines disappearance, he had the opportunity to give some insightful information about the workings of a police investigation and the difficulties involved in such, the chances of finding missing children and therefor the absolute need for people to be aware and search their memories for information.

Instead he used these interviews to not just perpetuate a rumour about this couple but highlight it to the world. In doing so, he has ,IMO crossed over from a professional to no more than tabloid gossip. Even if this stupid rumour was true, what does it have to do with a missing child?. My only reasoning for this being mentioned was to disparage the McCanns and their friends, and could have had an impact on the discovery of new information being brought forward. That to me is not only unprofessional but unforgivable. Hope you understand my thinking.


Tinks, hi thanks for cleaning up my mess, everyone else is so good at this I thought I'd keep you on your toes and give you some extra work. :twisted:
Hope you are well.
flower
Rosie, It is worrying that officers pensions are being topped up by selling books on investigations that are newly unsolved or still pending appeals, this could be seen from some as a conflict of interest.

Jak.

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Re: Did a Policeman kidnap Madeleine

Post by janeGT on Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:12 am

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Forgot to say!

Post by Guest on Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:38 am

The post I answered to Maria has nothing to do with this thread and may be confusing the orig. one, sorry , Maybe putting it elsewhere would be better. I would do it if I could but TBH don't have the foggiest how to.

So apologies again. :roll:

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Re: Did a Policeman kidnap Madeleine

Post by Guest on Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:52 am

Hi Jak,

Your posts has lot of to do with this thread. Amaral and Christovao would not be in their position if the system behind them would not allow it. And I believe playground man is too part of bigger figure.

So big question is who are behind Amaral and Christovao and what/whom do they protect.

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Hi Jak

Post by Rosie on Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:58 am

Your post is fine on this thread. Welcome
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Re: Did a Policeman kidnap Madeleine

Post by Guest on Fri Sep 12, 2008 5:01 am

Hi Jane GT :)

Do you think he has tattoo in his right wrist? I have been thinking about what he has in his right wright, but I have always thought it might be some kind of handicap or scar, but you're right, it can bee special tattoo too. I found image (it is not in my blog), where can see clearly he has something odd in his right wrist, but I have not been sure what it is.

-Minnea

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Re: Did a Policeman kidnap Madeleine

Post by janeGT on Fri Sep 12, 2008 7:01 am

yes it seems to be on his right wrist if photos are correct, and it is analysed and enlarged on other sites along with his name. You say he is pj I have been advised he knows pj but is in fact gnr. he was also directly linked to Joanna Cipriano.

It is on other site. I will not say it here, as is his name, I will not be the one to mention it here. it IS known and he does know and is close friend of Murat.
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Re: Did a Policeman kidnap Madeleine

Post by Guest on Fri Sep 12, 2008 7:51 am

Hi,

I have analyzed his wrist in my blog minnea.blogspot.com, but I'm not sure what he has in his right wrist. Yes and in image this bald man is in demonstration of GNR, so he obviously is GNR-officer.

I have heard he is linked in Joana case too, but I don't know details. I really would like to know more about him and I'm sure I'm not only one, because he was there observing Madeleine before an abduction.

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