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Did a Policeman kidnap Madeleine

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Chris, Why madeleine

Post by dianeh on Thu May 08, 2008 11:41 am

Here is another picture that I have pilfered from Brian's site. The top one shows how far it is from the verandah to the cubby.

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Chris

Post by dianeh on Thu May 08, 2008 11:45 am

You said

I did a lot of searching on the photo's and if zoomed in someone is kneeling with what looks like a camera! He is wearing a shirt, lilac in colour with stripes or check with short sleeves

There is a blow up of this one Brian's site, and to me it really doesnt look like someone else is through there, near Baldy. I took the person to be back at the verandah.

But hey, if you have seen it as good blow up ,it is probably a lot clearer than the one I have seen. There is definitely someone through the slit in the cubby and regardless of what I think, it should also have been investigated by the PJ.

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Here Are The Two Photos Which Appear To Have The Bald Policeman In

Post by Rosie on Sat May 10, 2008 11:00 pm

Spying On Gerry With The Children?


Cosying Up With Robert Murat And With Portugals GNR and Policia Judiciaria (PJ)


More details of the Bald Mystery Portuguese Policeman


Robert Murat Pictured Among Portugal's GNR - Very Cosy!!!


Robert Murat Shaking Hands With Yet Another GNR Member (GNR Portugal's Local Police)


Where Murat and Sergy Malinka Met On The Morning Of May 5th 2 days After Madeleine Went Missing!


Picture of Murat's Ex Wife and daughter said to resemble Madeleine

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can't believe the resemblance

Post by helenm on Sat May 10, 2008 11:08 pm

of Murat's daughter and Madeleine. Is it definite that the bald headed man in the photo is police?
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Hi Helen

Post by Rosie on Sun May 11, 2008 2:48 am

There is a definite resemblance there isn't there?

I do not know of this person is in the police, but this man is definitely the same man in all the photographs and when you go looking it is surprising how many times Murat crops up either talking to the GNR or to the PJ!

There seems to be a general opinion that the bald man is police, but I haven't seen him in uniform so would say that if he is it probably is not GNR, could be PJ?

One thing is for certain, I feel this man is a link to what happened to Madeleine and I wonder if he has been located and questioned!

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Re: Did a Policeman kidnap Madeleine

Post by kateno.51 on Sat May 24, 2008 4:58 am

Sass wrote:That's an interesting idea, but if we believed everything written on blogs we would have to believe stuff on Vile's too :sleep:

However, with the pictures of the man in the playground and during the investigation, it seems at least feasible. Certainly something to think about!

Hi everyone only on for a mo as I'm going out to dinner. I read a while back that the chap in question was a member of the Mark Warner security staff. So many lies are posted elsewhere it's difficult to figure fact from fiction. What I would like to know is how the journalist Cabrita came to have the information regarding addresses phone numbers and such from witness statements. Why hasn't this been questioned further? Looks like one rule for them and another for The McCann's and friends. :shock: Have to get going. Bye for now :) :) :)

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Re: Did a Policeman kidnap Madeleine

Post by janeGT on Sat May 24, 2008 6:10 am

that policeman pj/gnr was also in a photo taken shortly before joanna cipriano was taken. He is in it up to his armpits imho. bad bad vibes. he is also close friend of Murat. also, bad bad vibes. Many people think this playground photo is sinister then delving deper, they found more photos, with him in bakground just before cild disappeared...food for thought? AT LEAST.

don't expct action. PJ don't 'do' action. Just blame.

I have no doubts on this one.

I also don't think Metodo 3 give a toss about Madeleine, just their new offices and their fee. what, precisely have they DONE? ANY RESULTS? Not that I have seen. Just idle boasts. Noone has looked for Madeleine for a year now nearly. NOONE.

ISN'T IT TIME SOMEONE STARTED TO LOOK, IF IT'S NOT TOO LATE, WHICH I INCIDENTALLY DO NOT THINK IT IS, YET. BUT TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE.

too many gave up before it even started. apportioning blame is not justice. scape goats (sorry viv's bloggers) is not justice either. Hard evidence and DNA are required (sorry 2345.999%insane to your theories on this, unproven, unfounded, unbalanced)........before any conviction and COME ON NOW A 'RECONSTRUCTION' 14 MONTHS ON? YEAH RIGHT. LET'S RE-SINK THE TITANIC AND SEE WHAT ''REALLY HAPPENED''. GOOD IDEA. NOT. IDIOTS. AND YOU THINK WE ARE TOO. WE ARE NOT. THINK AGAIN, OR THINK.....FOR FIRST TIME AS EVIDENTLY YOU HAVE NOT DONE SO YET. IT WILL BE A NEW EXPERIENCE FOR YOU. ONLY ''THOUGHTS'' YOU HAD WERE TO CHARGE AMARAL AND HIS 4 OR 5 COHORTS. NOW THAT'S BEGINNING THE THOUGHT PROCESS. WELL DONE, NOW, TAKE ANOTHER STEP.......CASA PIA LINKS AND OTHERS TOO, TOO CLOSE, TOO SIMILAR, TOO MANY PEOPLE EG THE MAN IN THE PLAYGROUND PHOTO BALD PJ/GNR.......THERE AT TIME TOO. WATCHING THE CHILD TOO.....COME ON. GET A GRIP. there is also a man crouching, hiding behind the toys there. Murat? Magnify that picture, someone is crouching there. definitely. they are watching Gerry, Madeleine and one of the tins. The other sitting child (female, back to us) is one of the tapas 9's children. BEING WATCHED.

confused

SOMEONE, SOMWHERE, GET ON WITH IT BEFORE SOMEONE DIES
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You can see someone probably was behind the slde

Post by christabel on Sat May 24, 2008 6:52 am



This is the same slide with 2 views of it.
You can see someone could have easily been behind it :|
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Mystery man

Post by tulip on Sat May 24, 2008 7:14 am

Didn't someone say it was a MW securty guard?
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Tulip

Post by christabel on Sat May 24, 2008 7:24 am

If he was aMW security guard, he certainly got about a bit with the GNR and PJ!
Oh and also with Murat! Is this the chap that flew back to Portugal with Murat 2 days before Madeleine was abducted? :x
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Kateno

Post by helenm on Sat May 24, 2008 7:51 am

It was reported (doesn't mean it's true of course) that Cabrita was given her information by Goncalo Amaral, head of Madeleine investigation prior to him being given the sack
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yeah that name again Ms cabrita....aka...aaaaaa hhh

Post by janeGT on Sat May 24, 2008 10:28 am

confused who?

is it TRUE???

could be I think

playground

enlarged photos show definitely a man behind the slide with hat trying to obscure his face and himself...didn't work. in some UK papers quite clearly enlarged.

this, imho. is the key to a lot of what happened.

and in answer to another poster, yes, the bald man is definitely a known named policeman in Portugal. that is not in dispute. He was also at the scene just before Joanna Cipriano 'disappeared'............allegedly...................in papers too.

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Jane - about M3

Post by dianeh on Sat May 24, 2008 4:24 pm

Jane, we dont know what M3 have been doing, as their investigations are being kept quiet. And this is quite correct because if they do happen to get close to what has happened, and their actions are publicised, then Madeleine and/or the abductor(s) will just disappear.

Before their contract was up for renewal, Alsabella and her cronies were insisting that M3 were bribing witnesses, stalking people, conducting an illegal investigation in Portugal and more but I cant remember exactly what else they said. I was conversing nicely with Alsabella, and was getting all of this information, which at that time I didnt have any reason to doubt. This was on the HYS. Anyway, I searched around and could find nothing about this but remember that Alsa used to go on about how she knew the area, she had family and friends there etc etc. Well, I started to wonder, if M3 were doing all of that, why would the McCanns hire them and keep them. Simple answer, they are not doing these things. Alsa was trying to discredit them (she really should have just shut up and let that Marco (owner??) talk and that was probably enough) but once again, I ask myself why.

I really think that maybe M3 are close or have been close at some stage as to what has gone on. They may not even know they have been close but why else would Alsa have been trying to discredit them so insistently. She also reckoned they were giving the money back to the McCanns (AS IF) and it was just a scam. I think M3 probably are doing OK, or as good as any other firm could do in the circumstances. We really dont know, except that they havent found Madeleine. But they are not allowed to question witnesses in Portugal, so that must be hampering a bit.

I guess what I am saying is that I dont know whether M3 are any good but Alsa was trying very hard to discredit them. She was good at it too because at the time, I didnt doubt her, I didnt realise that she was such a liar, till a few weeks after that. But what I do question is why would Alsa want to discredit them, if they are incompetent, then they will be found out eventually and they can make absolutely no difference to the police investigation, NONE AT ALL. But they are able to follow up on leads that have not previously been looked at. If REAL evidence existed against the McCanns that it wouldnt matter what M3 did/does, it cant hurt the case. But if no evidence, then I doubt the PJ want them nosing around, what if they found a concrete clue, something that pointed away from the McCanns, towards, I dont know, maybe a tall bald dark man that may or may not be close to the PJ. :suspect:

Just throwing it up for discussion.
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look at This Pic

Post by Rosie on Sat May 24, 2008 8:09 pm

Take a look at this, then take a look at Christabel's pictures, you will see that almost for certain there is someone hiding in this apparatus, where the face is should be a blank and you should be able to see right through, you cant, someone and I think this looks like a woman, is sitting there with their legs up on the slide.

I have played around with the photo enlarged it and lightened it to see if I could see the figure and it became clear that this could very well be a woman, or a person with longish hair (like Gail Cooper's sketch)

I just wonder what the PJ are doing? Have they bothered to look at this photograph and have it examined professionally? If I can do this with limited tools, what could a professional forensic photographer achieve?

Probably yet another lead the PJ have just ignored. Why is this man just standing there? Why is someone hiding in the apparatus? Were they taking pictures from inside there? What is the significance of this, what ever it is NOT normal behaviour is it?


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Could a Policeman Have Taken Madeleine?

Post by Rosie on Sat May 24, 2008 11:06 pm

This is an excellent title that Christabel has posted here! It makes you think.

I do not believe everything I see written on blogs or forums, in fact I take them with a huge pinch of salt and this is especially the case with Vile and the Vilettes and the 3 A's. However, it would be a mistake to not think about the title of this thread, just because the initial question was asked on a blog and therefor just dismiss it as of no real significance.

I believe that we should question the Portuguese Policia Judiciaria (PJ) and their handling of this case and we should not rule out that there *may* have been involvement by one or more members of the PJ in Madeleine's disappearance.

To question like this is healthy and it means that democracy is alive and well and as the PJ and so many of their apparatchiks are forever telling us, "If they have done nothing wrong, then they have nothing to fear".
Some Portuguese people that I have read on the internet appear almost brainwashed into thinking that their police can do no wrong. I find this an incredible belief, especially, when you take into consideration that currently making the headlines are no less than 4 serving detectives of the PJ and on ex PJ detective are due to appear in court soon, to answer serious charges concerning the case of missing Joana Cipriano, that her mother and uncle were forced into confessing to Joana's murder by means of intimidation and torture. A judge has looked at this case and has ruled that there is a case for these men to answer in a Portuguese court of law and if they are convicted of these charges, the prison sentences carried are up to five years imprisonment! Two of the the officers involved are Goncalo Amaral, who was *SACKED* from the Madeleine McCann investigation for ineptitude and engaging in a press war against the British Police and Paulo Cristaovo ex PJ who has profited from writing books about Joana and Madeleine and it is said has sold the rights of the book about Madeleine to a Portuguese TV company for a soap series to made out of it! The book about Joana is bringing profits into Cristaovo's bank account, despite the fact that he has been charged with a serious crime concerning this case!

If we stop questioning those in authority democracy will wither and die, questioning our leaders and being able to question our leaders, is a fundamental building block of any democracy, in any country.

None of us want to believe that those that we place such great trust in would become involved in anything like child abduction, or child trafficking for whatever reason, but none of us can rule it out, especially in this case, which has a phenomenal amount of police inadequacies and errors attached to it.

We are told that to become members of the PJ applicants must have a university degree, that taken into consideration one has to ask why then have the Policia Judiciaria (PJ) made such a complete farce of the Madeleine McCann investigation? In a case where there are very few facts number 1 being that Madeleine is still missing and the rest mainly concern the *facts* of a bodged investigation which is laying in tatters! There have been fundamental errors from minute 1 and the investigation has lumbered on to produce a whole catalogue of police errors, throughout the almost 13 months that it has been in operation. This must make people ask questions?

  • 1) Why is it that seemingly well educated, experienced policeman have made such catastrophic errors and keep on making them?

    2) Is it conceivable to think that such "educated, experienced detectives" have accidentally made error after error after error?

    3) Should we start asking why? Why have these "educated, experienced" detectives made such errors and why do they carry on making them?

    4) Could it be that these errors of judgement are no accident? That perhaps just maybe they have been "deliberate errors" designed to befuddle and confuse this investigation to steer honest detectives and others away from the truth?


Take a look at the above pictures, who is that bald man? If he was Mark Warner security, would not have Mark Warner said he was security?

If he is Mark Warner security, then ask yourself the question "Why Mark Warner" felt it necessary to employ security officers to go around keeping an eye on families with children enjoying their holidays. We are told that Praia da Luge is a sleepy quiet fishing village with almost zero crime, if this is the case, why the need for such stringent security, employing people to spy on people with families going about their normal holiday business?

It looks like there is a person in that toy apparatus too, if there was, why are they in there? What are they doing?

It looks like this same bald man is joining in the search for Madeleine with Robert Murat, with members of Portugal's local police (GNR), OK this is feasible, so why wouldn't he join in the search? So who is he? GNR? PJ? MW Security?

These photos are now so famous, it is inconceivable that this man has not come forward to say this is me, in the play area and or not me in the other photos, there has been nothing, no admissions, denials, nothing, WHY?

One thing is for certain, this investigation is not going to go away. Madeleine is not going to be forgotten and the questions will be asked, until the truth comes out.

"Whatever that truth happens to be!"

I for one think there is much much more to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann than we realise, or know. I think there is something happening in Portugal and last May 3rd 2007, it was happening in Praia da Luge and for those that ask why Praia Da Luge? I simply ask, "why Not?" Why anywhere?

Portugal still has no Sex Offenders Register, it is said to be a haven for paedophiles and as distasteful as it is, Paedophilia and those that service the needs of this sick obsession are in every walk and every echelon of our society, so reverting back to Christabel's title "Could a Policeman Have Taken Madeleine?" I answer; Yes, of course a policeman could have taken Madeleine, someone did, why not a policeman?

This is why I think that an outside agency has to come in and take this investigation over. It is not only for Madeleine McCann that the truth *MUST* be uncovered, but it is for every missing child in Portugal, every abused child in Portugal and chillingly for every child who may go missing in Portugal in the future.

This has to be faced and now is as good a time as ever!
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Re: Did a Policeman kidnap Madeleine

Post by kateno.51 on Sun May 25, 2008 1:02 am

tulip wrote:Didn't someone say it was a MW securty guard?
Hi. Yes it was me. I asked on sky who he was. An anti :evil: told me he was security. So it might not be true.

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Re: Did a Policeman kidnap Madeleine

Post by janeGT on Sun May 25, 2008 1:09 am

A lot of you know this photo has always deeply bothered me. very much. the playground is for MW residents only. they are not all residents. The bald guy is definitely PJ/GNR as this has been discussed on many sites over the last while. someone IS HIDING behind apparatus. why do that if you are not doing anything underhand? This same bald man was photographed the day before Joanna Cipriano vanished. Indeed Rosie, why is this not significantly being analysed with specialist tools? Because of what and who he is, imho, that's why.

Also on supertroll's site today lunchtime, there is a really good article posted by 'anon' re amnesty and Portugal/pj section 5 on that I ask you all to look at.

:pale:
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Did a Policeman kidnapped Madeleine

Post by Guest on Sun May 25, 2008 4:48 am

Hi,

I'm new here. Sorry, if I do some mistakes, my mother language is not english. I want to do all I can to help to find Madeleine, this lovely little innocent girl.

I'm sure playgroundman could be this PJ detective (Murat's friend). I have compared these images and there is too much similarities, that he could be someone else. It means Madeleine was shadowed by PJ before an abduction and PJ is involved in Madeleine's disappearance.

This is my blog:

http://minnea.blogspot.com/2008/05/playgroundman-bagman-has-something.html

http://minnea.blogspot.com/2008/05/madeleine-was-shadowed-by-pj-detective.html


Last edited by Rosiepops on Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:41 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : I didn't know how to link)

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Re: Did a Policeman kidnap Madeleine

Post by janeGT on Sun May 25, 2008 5:12 am

hello Minnea and welcome

Yes, I totally agree with you, he certainly is. I have no doubts at all about that. I was most concerned to read a day or so ago that his photograph was also taken the day before Joanna Cipriano disappeared observing her also. No coincidence in my view. Not at all.

I hope you enjoy our mad, friendly, funny site. :bounce: :P :D
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Hi Minnea

Post by Rosie on Sun May 25, 2008 5:51 am

Welcome to the forum. :D

I have looked at your blog and find it a refreshing change from what we are usually subjected to on the net, in fact as time goes on I am finding more and more sites like yours and ours.

I agree this bald ?"policeman" is not just there is a residents only restricted area by coincidence, there is something more to this than meets the eye, much more. People can pull the wool over their eyes as much as they like, it will not alter the fact that there is something gravely afoot here!

I have looked at your excellent photos, the white bit on this mans right arm could be a pigmentation disorder mark, or it could be where a tattoo has been removed?

I blew up the arm of another photo of yours (the one where you see the back of the bald man in the white T shirt and on his right arm you can just about see what could be the same kind of pigmentation white mark.
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Thank you janeGT and Rosiepops.

Post by Guest on Sun May 25, 2008 7:09 am

I think this forum is just right place for me and I am happy that this kind of a forum has been established.

I'm so happy there is honest people like you, who really want to find Madeleine and find out what happened for her and fight against this enormous lynching machine against Madeleine parents (It proves there is very powerful people behind Madeleine's abduction). There has been so much disinformation and propaganda against Madeleine parents and I'm so full of all kind of lies. It is better to concentrate on a few facts and these images are all fact.

Yes it really looks like Rosiepops, there is whiter area just below his sleeve also in this image where is Murat and the back of the bald man. It really could be a removed tattoo.

And have you seen this video, where he is. Look at his way to stand. It is similar as in in playground image. I mean his feet stick out outwards.

http://videos.sapo.pt/cIrWOIO5DFIvUF6dpZf2

I think this PJ detective is first key to find Madeleine.

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Hi Minnea

Post by Rosie on Mon May 26, 2008 10:04 am

I agree this man looks and stands just like the man in the photograph!

I wonder if the PJ have interviewed him? What was he doing in that play area and why was there someone hiding in that apparatus and I wonder if that apparatus has been forensically examined?

Who was that South African man in the video I wonder?! Very quick to say there had been nothing else like that in PDL when there has been!
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Minnea, Rosie

Post by dianeh on Mon May 26, 2008 10:53 am

It does look like the man in the photos.

I wonder if M3 has forwarded this onto another appropriate authority (not PJ) for investigation and photo analysis.

Rosie, after looking at this again, maybe we are wrong about the extension of the secrecy order. Perhaps it has been extended not because of the McCanns but because of photos such as this one, that the PJ should know about. Perhaps another line of investigation, involving organised crime has surfaced and that is why the secrey order is extended. The reconstruction may be to help with this other line of investigation, not to throw more suspicion onto the parents. I understand that for the secrecy order to be extended it is meant to be serious, such as child trafficking or organised crime. Clearly if the McCanns harmed Madeleine and then disposed of her body, then this clearly doesnt fit into the 'serious' crime definition.

because in my opinion, it is either corruption and/or incompetence on a grand scale in the PJ, or they are really investigating a serious (under their definition for the secrecy order extension) crime. I would love it to be the latter, rather than the former. But either way, the truth will emerge at some point. Lets just hope that it isnt too late for Madeleine, Joanna and any other little children.
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Also

Post by dianeh on Mon May 26, 2008 11:00 am

You could argue that I am wrong (about my previous post) because of all the well timed leaks coming from the PJ. I would argue, maybe not. If the leaks are not condoned by senior officers, and are coming from low ranking officers, then they may not even know what is being investigated. The leaks may also keep being released to make it seem that the McCanns are still the reason the secrecy order is in place.

Just goes to show that all the secrecy laws do, is let conspiracy theories run wild.

My own opinion is that the McCanns are still the targets and the abductor has been allowed to go free. I also think that the abductor didnt work alone and is part of an organisation that may have links to ?????????? I was only offering up an alternative theory,
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Minnea

Post by kateno.51 on Mon May 26, 2008 5:57 pm

Minnea wrote:I think this forum is just right place for me and I am happy that this kind of a forum has been established.

I'm so happy there is honest people like you, who really want to find Madeleine and find out what happened for her and fight against this enormous lynching machine against Madeleine parents (It proves there is very powerful people behind Madeleine's abduction). There has been so much disinformation and propaganda against Madeleine parents and I'm so full of all kind of lies. It is better to concentrate on a few facts and these images are all fact.

Yes it really looks like Rosiepops, there is whiter area just below his sleeve also in this image where is Murat and the back of the bald man. It really could be a removed tattoo.

And have you seen this video, where he is. Look at his way to stand. It is similar as in in playground image. I mean his feet stick out outwards.

:D :D Pleased to meet you minnea. I have just found this site too. Was I reading some of your information on another site last week? If so I was hooked.
Is it true that amaral's friend the one who wrote the book is head of Missing Children In Portugal? I read it somewhere and wondered if it were true.
Sorry i had to edit this as I couldn't see the quotes. :oops:

http://videos.sapo.pt/cIrWOIO5DFIvUF6dpZf2

I think this PJ detective is first key to find Madeleine.

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