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Re: Can you believe this?/Leads/Sighting Not Followed up/Local Dogs Unsuitable!

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Re: Can you believe this?/Leads/Sighting Not Followed up/Local Dogs Unsuitable!

Post by Admin Ed on Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:12 am

Re: Can you believe this?
by Laura23 Today at 20:36

Madeleine: Leads not followed up
Published: Tuesday, 5 August 2008, 6:42AM
New details about the Portuguese police enquiry into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann show potential leads that were not followed up.

The Portuguese authorities released the police files on Monday after lifting the period of judicial secrecy in the case.

They reveal that a Dutch shopkeeper said a little girl aged three or four came into her party store with a man, woman, and two other children, according to a witness statement to Dutch police.

Anna Stam said she spoke to the girl, who called herself "Maddy", and replied to a question about her mother: "They took me from my holiday."

The man she was with - who "did not look like a nice person" - appeared to be speaking Portuguese but the woman spoke in English and told Ms Stam they had a small circus in France.

Ms Stam was at the back of the shop when the young girl approached her and asked in English without an accent: "Do you know where my mummy is?"

The shop assistant answered that her mother was a little further back in the store but the child replied, "She is not my mummy," and added: "She is a stranger, she took me from my mummy."

She said the girl had dark brown hair in a ponytail, "huge" green-brown eyes and a pale face which showed "little or no emotion".

The report was sent to the Portuguese authorities on June 18 last year but it is not clear what action was taken.

Meanwhile, e-fits of suspicious men seen hanging around Praia da Luz before Madeleine went missing were drawn up but never made public.

Two computer images of potential suspects were created based on eyewitness accounts on May 6, 2007, three days after she vanished.

Derek Flack, from Ilford, east London, was staying in his holiday home in Praia da Luz in early May last year.

While out for a walk with his partner he saw a suspicious man gazing towards the Ocean Club complex, where Madeleine and her family were staying at the time.

A report in the Portuguese police file states: "He then realised the man was staring fixedly at the area in question, very focused on what he was doing, and did not notice Flack's presence."

The man was white, tanned and apparently aged between 25 and 35, and Mr Flack was convinced he was not a tourist.

Another witness, British ex-pat Lance Purser said he had seen someone similar in the area several times, about a fortnight before Madeleine disappeared.

The man he saw was scruffy, aged 35 to 40, thin, and usually dressed in dark clothes.

The Portuguese police report based on his interview reads: "(Mr Purser) said he thought the individual looked like he could have some slight psychological problems, from his appearance."


ive taken this off my website for you all to read

i hope its true

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Hi Sian

Post by Rosie on Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:29 am

The e-fit photos put a chill up my spine, they looked so real and they do look a lot like each other and what is significant here is that two different men gave these descriptions unknown to each other! These sightings of this person/people also fits in with statements given by other witnesses.

The Dutch shop sighting just makes me incredible sad and we do not know as yet if this has or has not been followed up, but if it hasn't, it is going to make a lot of people extremely angry.

What is beginning to emerge now is a picture of not only incompetence but gross dereliction of duty and I understand totally that the McCann's want to concentrate on searching these files for missed leads in the hope that it leads them to finding their daughter, but I hope too that they do not allow the incompetence of one person to go unpunished and just allow him to callously make money for himself out writing that book.

At the moment I am beyond anger at what has come out, I feel cold inside and incredibly upset.

We have to hope harder and pray longer and harder for Madeleine and Kate and Gerry now, they really need our support, now more than ever.
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Re: Re: Can you believe this?/Leads/Sighting Not Followed up/Local Dogs Unsuitable!

Post by Guest on Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:46 am

Rosiepops wrote:The e-fit photos put a chill up my spine, they looked so real and they do look a lot like each other and what is significant here is that two different men gave these descriptions unknown to each other! These sightings of this person/people also fits in with statements given by other witnesses.

The Dutch shop sighting just makes me incredible sad and we do not know as yet if this has or has not been followed up, but if it hasn't, it is going to make a lot of people extremely angry.

What is beginning to emerge now is a picture of not only incompetence but gross dereliction of duty and I understand totally that the McCann's want to concentrate on searching these files for missed leads in the hope that it leads them to finding their daughter, but I hope too that they do not allow the incompetence of one person to go unpunished and just allow him to callously make money for himself out writing that book.

At the moment I am beyond anger at what has come out, I feel cold inside and incredibly upset.

We have to hope harder and pray longer and harder for Madeleine and Kate and Gerry now, they really need our support, now more than ever.
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yes rosie thats why i was pm everyone i could think of to help me out on sky and what a sucess it was!!!!!!!! i would like to thank every one tonight for their effort,and helping put them antis in their place and supporting the maccanns.

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Re: Re: Can you believe this?/Leads/Sighting Not Followed up/Local Dogs Unsuitable!

Post by clairesy on Wed Aug 06, 2008 9:22 am

This is truely just sickening........... to think this child could and probably was madeline mccann.Why on earth would such a lead be ignored and not folowed up properly.I tell ya why they probably all too busy sat on their backsides drinking and smoking... while this little girl is crying out for help...."

"im maddie she aint my mummy, shes a stranger, they took me from my holidays" those words will haunt me for god knows how long.

The only thing about those words....madeleine did not like being called maddie and when people called it her she would say..."my names madeleine not maddie"


Last edited by Rosiepops on Sun Apr 05, 2009 1:08 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Forum Revamp)
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Re: Re: Can you believe this?/Leads/Sighting Not Followed up/Local Dogs Unsuitable!

Post by littleminx on Wed Aug 06, 2008 9:23 am

i really can not believe what i am reading, how could they not follow up these leads !! i believe we are going to hear alot more , lets hope and pray that the pi,s put all this imformation and evidance together and find madeleine. SOON
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Hold On

Post by dianeh on Wed Aug 06, 2008 9:39 am

On the Dutch shop sighting.

The Dutch police would follow this up, not the PJ. And we have no reason to doubt that they didnt do that. It may not have been Madeleine (or it may have been and she may have called herself Maddie becuase that is what the adults she was with called her) and the Dutch police may have confirmed it wasnt her. Or the people may have been untraceable.

What I question is why wasnt the results from the Dutch police put in the file? I doubt that the Dutch police would not have followed up, unless this was the instruction from Portugal, and surely at this early stage, that wasnt likely to happen.

So were the PJ that sloppy that they didnt put the follow ups in the file?
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Re: Re: Can you believe this?/Leads/Sighting Not Followed up/Local Dogs Unsuitable!

Post by Rosie on Wed Aug 06, 2008 10:00 am

dianeh wrote:On the Dutch shop sighting.

The Dutch police would follow this up, not the PJ. And we have no reason to doubt that they didnt do that. It may not have been Madeleine (or it may have been and she may have called herself Maddie becuase that is what the adults she was with called her) and the Dutch police may have confirmed it wasnt her. Or the people may have been untraceable.

What I question is why wasnt the results from the Dutch police put in the file? I doubt that the Dutch police would not have followed up, unless this was the instruction from Portugal, and surely at this early stage, that wasnt likely to happen.

So were the PJ that sloppy that they didnt put the follow ups in the file?

I haven't a clue if the Dutch police were in contact with the PJ or what if anything was done about this, I am waiting to see, hopefully the Dutch police will make a statement.

I do not see that it necessarily follows that the Dutch police did know about this, they may very well have, but the person may have reported this straight to the PJ through the helpline number, but I am interested to know either way.

Clairesy, I picked up on the Maddie reference immediately I heard this news. Madeleine did not like being called Maddie, so we shall have to see what comes of this.

What is staggering that the McCann's were not told about this!


Last edited by Rosiepops on Wed Aug 06, 2008 10:04 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by dianeh on Wed Aug 06, 2008 10:02 am

I assumed that the shopkeeper reported it to her local police. But I didnt think about the possibility of reporting straight to Portugal. See that what comes of living in Australia, where we are so far away from everyone else except NZ.

But you are right, we have to find that out as well.
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Hi Diane

Post by Rosie on Wed Aug 06, 2008 10:19 am

I dare say we will learn about this over the next few days, but it sounds a very exact report, I just hope that the PJ did ask the Dutch police to follow this up, or that if it was reported to the Dutch police they did follow it up, I can't see why they would not though. I actually do not want to think that such a sighting was ignored, but Clarence Mitchell seemed to be very interested in it this evening.

What catches my attention is that this woman mentioned the hair being dark brown, I wonder if it had been dyed? But although she mentions the big eyes and the eye colour, she does not mention the eye defect. But again the fact that she mentions this eye colour holds my interest because of the poor way in which Madeleine's actually description was circulated in those early days, a lot people assumed that she had blue eyes and I have heard this said many times! So this eye colour description holds interest too.

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Re: Re: Can you believe this?/Leads/Sighting Not Followed up/Local Dogs Unsuitable!

Post by clairesy on Wed Aug 06, 2008 10:20 am

Rosie
exactly...but then I have been thinking about it and to be honest the pj have made that many blunders...gonc calls her maddie(he did so on the cover of his book)...so maybe he as written it down as maddie...not madeleine.....im holding my breath hoping the privates are onto this one...although to be honest i think if it was anything they wouldn't have released the report with out knowing for sure it was or wasn't her first.
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Clairesy

Post by dianeh on Wed Aug 06, 2008 10:26 am

You could be write about the name, it may just the way it is written down, like a shorthand, as that is what the cops were calling her, as well as the papers.
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Re: Re: Can you believe this?/Leads/Sighting Not Followed up/Local Dogs Unsuitable!

Post by clairesy on Thu Aug 07, 2008 9:34 am

here is a link to a report that says madeleine was spotted twice the same day in Amsterdam.ONce by the shop assistant who says madeleine was talking about being with a stranger and taken away from her holiday....and again the same day by another woman who saw her with cut dyed red hair

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1041818/British-police-fear-Maddie-stolen-order-Belgian-paedophile-ring.html
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This makes me so angry...

Post by Mandz on Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:55 pm

The message from Scotland Yard read: 'Intelligence suggests that a paedophile ring in Belgium made an order for a young girl three days before Madeleine McCann was taken.
'Somebody connected to this group saw Madeleine and took a photograph of her. The purchaser agreed that the girl was suitable and Madeleine was taken.'

The dramatic development, and the horrific picture it draws, will bring fresh agony to Madeleine's parents Kate and Gerry McCann.



FFS WHAT IS WRONG WITH THEM WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THAT POLICE FORCE?????? I AM ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTED BEYOND WORDS SHE WAS A LITTLE GIRL….AAAAGGGGG….. :( :( :(
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Re: Re: Can you believe this?/Leads/Sighting Not Followed up/Local Dogs Unsuitable!

Post by maria on Thu Aug 07, 2008 9:55 pm

Tulip

That's the current info from Sky

'The information was contained in an email from the Metropolitan Police's CO14 clubs and vice intelligence unit included in a massive dossier of evidence made public this week.

Portuguese police pursued the lead with Interpol, which gathered further reports from Belgium, the UK, Finland and Germany.

Detective Paulo Rebelo, head of the Madeleine inquiry, ruled that all but the German intelligence showed "lack of credibility" and ordered that the Scotland Yard tip-off should be filed.'

Seems to be a fact!
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Post by tulip on Thu Aug 07, 2008 10:18 pm

Then what about the German reports? I have such a creepy feeling about this. However, if all the reports were followed up properly, and not by Amaral, I suppose there is chance it was in fact a dead end.

Maria, your posts are always so informative and logical -- I know you've been told this several times -- and give us an excellent perspective. I admire the way you have put patriotism aside to tell it as you see it. Your views are very credible. Thanks!
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Maria, Tulip

Post by dianeh on Thu Aug 07, 2008 10:33 pm

An Intelligence report doesnt equate to it being fact. Forgive me if I have posted this on here before but I think that there is a possibility that the British police investigated before forwarding to Portugal, and that it came to nothing.

I also wonder whether or not the information came from one of the child porn traffickers, or possible paedophiles picked up in the internation operation that picked up over 1200 criminals in over 20 countries (the massive internat sting). This is was round the same time. If so, it is possible that someone who followed the story (probably posting on Viv's blog) gave up this information to try to gain some leverage. Because if they truly knew, then they should be able to give more details. But if it doesnt pan out, then the intelligence is probably flawed. Or on the other hand, the person may have picked it up over the internet but there was no way to trace it properly.

Once again, we just have to wait and see, and I believe that the joint Interpol task force into child pornography is still operational. If there are pictures of Madeleine out there, they will find them. So far, there have been none, or at least none made public. And this task force is also involved in trying to hunt out paedophile rings. So if it is true about Madeleine, then the police may find her.
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Dogs used in searchs without proper training

Post by maria on Sat Aug 09, 2008 7:39 pm

""Dogs used next day weren't trained for urban areas

The day after Madeleine McCann's disappearance was marked by a hiccup in the investigation: the portuguese GNR dogs used to trace the trail of the missing child through a blanket she used were not adequate.

This was due to the fact that these animals are specifically trained to work in rural areas and not urban, as is the case of the Ocean Club surroundings, in Praia da Luz, where the minor disappeared , the 3rd May 2007.

The fact is recognised on the Public Ministry archiving report, dated 21st July 2008, that explains that "after [the disappearance night] there has been an attempt to reconstruct the path followed by Madeleine, but the results weren't meaningful, also because the dogs were more used to rural areas than urban or similar", can be read on the report signed by prosecutors Magalhães e Menezes and João Melchior Gomes, "as the existence of more odours in the air makes it impossible for the tracking dog to identify or follow the target odour", justifies the Public Ministry, in the document in the process.

The searches went on the following days, "within a radius of 15km2, starting from Praia da Luz". The document makes a "gist" of everything that was done to find the child, but which revealed itself "unfruitful", concludes the process report.""

in Diário de Notícias, 09/08/2008

Can you believe this? How can they now assure Madeleine hasn't fallen/been thrown in the holes existing at the time all over the place (road works)? How can they assure there is no trail to Vila Mariana or inside it? Etc.


Last edited by maria on Sat Aug 09, 2008 7:43 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : ortography)
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Thank you Maria

Post by Marilyn on Sat Aug 09, 2008 8:59 pm

As always, good information from Maria that makes sense. So much speculation on the internet blogs has been based on fiction & outright lies; which even persists today. Those who dearly want the McCann's to suffer cling onto this, but actual clear facts now coming out blow them away. We are getting there .. as more and more information comes out the anti's are left exposed for what they are .. it takes more than shouting Madeleine's name to show you actually care for her & are not just indulging in hateful spite against K&G as a sick hobby.

Can we at least hope that behind the scenes there is urgent and highly professional work going on in several countries where information has proved credible? So much to cover, and it takes real skill to do it. I still think it most likely that Madeleine was spotted and taken to order. But not necessarily by the violent/psycho type of paedophiles .. hang on to your stomach here .. there are all types who prey on children & not all of them kill or use violence. If Madeleine had been taken by the most dangerous type, I feel her body would have been found, and quickly. I think she may be in "reserve" .. she quickly became a famous child and therefore extremely valuable for sale .. but as long as the McCann's search & public attention is so intense .. they cannot sell her, they cannot "film" her; they must hide her & wait .. a break in the chain would lead back to them. I am stretching, I know .. but all is possible. I believe many police forces would want the victory of rescuing Madeleine and just think what this would mean for other stolen children. It can be done.

Thank you Maria clapping

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Re: Re: Can you believe this?/Leads/Sighting Not Followed up/Local Dogs Unsuitable!

Post by kateno.51 on Sat Aug 09, 2008 9:44 pm

Marilyn Switzerland wrote:As always, good information from Maria that makes sense. So much speculation on the internet blogs has been based on fiction & outright lies; which even persists today. Those who dearly want the McCann's to suffer cling onto this, but actual clear facts now coming out blow them away. We are getting there .. as more and more information comes out the anti's are left exposed for what they are .. it takes more than shouting Madeleine's name to show you actually care for her & are not just indulging in hateful spite against K&G as a sick hobby.

Can we at least hope that behind the scenes there is urgent and highly professional work going on in several countries where information has proved credible? So much to cover, and it takes real skill to do it. I still think it most likely that Madeleine was spotted and taken to order. But not necessarily by the violent/psycho type of paedophiles .. hang on to your stomach here .. there are all types who prey on children & not all of them kill or use violence. If Madeleine had been taken by the most dangerous type, I feel her body would have been found, and quickly. I think she may be in "reserve" .. she quickly became a famous child and therefore extremely valuable for sale .. but as long as the McCann's search & public attention is so intense .. they cannot sell her, they cannot "film" her; they must hide her & wait .. a break in the chain would lead back to them. I am stretching, I know .. but all is possible. I believe many police forces would want the victory of rescuing Madeleine and just think what this would mean for other stolen children. It can be done.

Thank you Maria clapping

Thank-you Maria and Thank-you :sendingulove: Marilyn. Standing ovation:clapping:

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Re: Re: Can you believe this?/Leads/Sighting Not Followed up/Local Dogs Unsuitable!

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