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Gonc tries to release his book

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Gonc tries to release his book

Post by helenm on Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:40 pm

Goncalo Amaral is trying to release his book in Lisbon next week, reports 24horas newspaper. HE wants to release it PRIOR to the judicial secrecy on Madeleine's investigation being lifted, which is expected in the middle of August. Now I wonder why that is? :evil: IMO he is in a rush to publish to get the sales before the truth about his shambolic investigation is brought into the public arena.

He says that in no way will the publishing of his book get in the way of the investigation . Yes? tell us something new, what have fairy tales got to do with a criminal investigation? lol! He also says that this attempt at early release has nothing to do with him, it is the advice of his publisher!!! Yes, the publisher could see the dinheiro going down the drain with the case to be shelved on Monday.

IMO the Mccann lawyers will be jumping on this attempt from a dizzy height! How can Gonc release a book about the investigation when the secrecy rules still apply? Let's hope that if the Mccann lawyers are not successful in stopping the publishing of this book they can at least stall it, preferably until after Gonc has appeared in court.
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Hi Helen

Post by Rosie on Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:25 pm

Isn't it all becoming crystal clear all of a sudden?

When Gonc retired the other week and started his tour of the TV studios and talking to newspaper editors, anyone with any political nous would have realised what he was trying to do - get in first!

I believe he done this for a few reasons, one of those that he has begun his trial early! He knows that once this story is out he is not going to be Mr Popular of Portugal!

How popular will he be in Portugal? When this man appears almost single handed to have destroyed the reputation of good, decent and honest Portuguese citizens and their police force? He is a Maverick, a wild card, a joker and court jester, he should have been reigned in long ago and when poor little Madeleine disappeared, he should never, ever, in a million years been allowed anywhere near this investigation, not with his little "local difficulties" which were well known. Who on earth allowed this man to continue with this investigation? Or did they think this would be good, if he could clear this case up quickly, then this would look good on him when he went before the judge to answer for his conduct in the case of the trial of Leonor Cipriano, mother of "still" missing Joana Cipriano?
Is this why there was this indecent haste in making Kate and Gerry McCann arguidos? Remember that if Amaral had waited another 8 days before going to the prosecutor to ask for the McCann's to be made suspects, the law would have changed and Pinto has said that it would have been doubtful that they could have been made suspects, as Amaral would have had to produce evidence to make them suspects, evidence it is obvious just did not exist then, does not exist now and has never existed!

It very much looks to me as if they took a gamble on the snouts of two dogs!

I believe that it was no coincidence that he retired when he did, there are many reasons why he would do such a thing, not least because he was probably pushed, how good would it have looked for Portugal to have a serving Police Detective on trial for perverting the course of justice, by withholding vital evidence in the battery of a suspect into a confession, on another case bearing striking similar events to a case he was actually sacked form? affraid

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On releasing his book...

Post by calcite51 on Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:45 pm

Let him publish his book! I don't see it becoming a best seller - he should be able to sell four or five copies (Vile, Claws, Rotdoc, Hopefortruth, Alsabella - unless Alsabella buys another book for all her personas - Ana, Marla, etc). IF and WHEN the McCann decide to write a book, I predict that book will become a best seller and they will be able to choose their talk shows that they will be invited to.
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Re: Gonc tries to release his book

Post by clairesy on Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:08 pm

As if the gormless g#t hasn't caused enough heartache as it is ..whats he trying to do now!!

You know something though??...this proves to me that he was probably the one to leak all the rubbish about the mccanns when they went to Brussels and so on.

Here he is once again when something good and promising is about to happen sticking his oar in and causing havoc. Makes me wonder what it is he is so afraid of????What is it about the mccanns that makes him is so persistent ??.....I hope he does release his pathetic book.And when he does i hope every top psychologist in the world buys a bleeding copy and goes through it analysing it with a fine tooth comb.............to trip him up and hang the b####d.
For someone to be so persistent in what they do, they have a motive as far as im concerned.He is a cop so surly he knows the evidence isn't holding up and the case is a flop...why would he still want to bring this family down.He isn't being very professional in my mind and as a unhealthy interest in this family.
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Re: Gonc tries to release his book

Post by clairesy on Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:35 pm

Another thing id like to add ..............im amazed this guy found the time to write a book!!!!I mean lets be honest ...it seemed he worked for around 4 hours a day when he was suppose to be top cop on the madeleine case............ the rest of the time it appeared that he was sitting in cafes and restaurants supping glasses of wine and puffing at cigars.
So unless he was writing his book during the four hours he was suppose to be investigating this case he must have been witting it whilst p####d!!
Hmmmmmmm I can imagine this book hes written already....maybe someone should write a book about him and his colleagues................ like one of the latest Enid Blyton novels....and the deluded adventures of the famous 5!!!where a "fictional detective & Co" get banged up for torturing defenseless women and falsifying documents about child abduction cases...all in the name of good policing???? With the maon fictional story reading like a vindictive attempt to twist the truth and enable a cruel crime to take place without intervention. Just changing the names for the purpose of writing the book!
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Re: Gonc tries to release his book

Post by Rosie on Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:56 am

calcite51 wrote:Let him publish his book! I don't see it becoming a best seller - he should be able to sell four or five copies (Vile, Claws, Rotdoc, Hopefortruth, Alsabella - unless Alsabella buys another book for all her personas - Ana, Marla, etc). IF and WHEN the McCann decide to write a book, I predict that book will become a best seller and they will be able to choose their talk shows that they will be invited to.

No they probably only need the one, they can all read it at the same time (when Notdoc is not looking at Wiki or Google) Laughing Laughing Laughing

When and if the McCann's choose to write a book, I expect it will be to replenish the fund to enable them to search for Madeleine and if please God that Madeleine is found by then, the money can go to helping them pay for the care that Madeleine may need on her return. I would also not be in the least bit surprised to learn that any money over would almost certainly be put to other funds for missing children.

This is the difference between the dignified McCann's and some others.

I am still having trouble understanding how Murat will be able to touch money coming to him off of the back of a missing child, personally speaking, I could not touch it, it just would not feel right, it would feel tainted, I would rather live in poverty and donate every penny of it towards other missing children.

Anyway, I feel when the McCann's have their arguido status lifted and they are formally cleared of being suspects in the disappearance of their daughter, they will be able to set their investigators on this case properly. The PJ will have no option but to hand over all the information in this case, it is looking dire for the PJ and the Portuguese judiciary as it is but if they clear the McCann's and still refuse to hand over this information, this will be seen as again purposefully preventing these parents from finding their daughter and the backlash is going to be massive.

Perhaps when we get some investigators on this case that actually know what they are doing, we will all learn exactly where some people really were on that night and that should be very interesting.

I feel there is masses to come out and whoever took Madeleine and whoever helped her abductors, needs to feel afraid, very, very afraid. affraid

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Murat's payout

Post by tulip on Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:35 am

I couldn't agree more with you Rosie that Gonc's book plan is a disgrace and I have no doubt that the timing has been pulled forward in order to get in first. I hope the book will meet with the contempt it deserves. Plus a libel suit.

As for Murat, I think we have to be realistic. We have to assume he is innocent of any involvement at all, as we expect others to do re the McCanns. We clearly can't have double standards. It is quite possibly true that he has had his life and career ruined by this -- the mere fact that many people are still publishing theories about his supposed involvement shows that the press reports (because that's all that people have to go on) HAVE had a serious effect.

The damages he has been awarded are not that high in the circumstances. Nor were those awarded to the McCanns. I don't think anyone is in a position to tell him what he should do with his money. He may need quite a lot to re-establish himself -- and some people will always look at him askance, just as we know many will at the McCanns. One can understand why the McCanns would put the money towards the search for Madeleine, but Murat has not lost a child. He has lost his reputation. He may not want to 'live in poverty' and donate money to what is in effect a charity. I wonder how many people would.
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Re: Gonc tries to release his book

Post by Rosie on Sat Jul 19, 2008 2:19 am

I am not telling him what to do with "his money", I am saying that personally, I would not be able to touch it and I know that I couldn't.
Where ever and what ever has happened to Madeleine and by whom, every time I wrote a cheque or looked at a bank statement, I would be reminded of where that money came from. It would be like a carbuncle on my horizon and everything coming from that money would not seem clean, or right.

This is not the same for the McCann's, because they are using the money to try and find their daughter and they have said (and I believe them) that at the end of all this, what ever money is left, they will donate to suitable charities.

Also I do not hold that the papers have been particularly bad towards him, certainly nowhere near the hysterical nonsense that was printed against the McCann's.

The point of saying that is, if Gerry McCann can manage to get himself back to work and support his family and pay his bills while under the enormous pressures and strains and grief that he and Kate are under, why is it that Robert Murat could not do the same?

They are all arguidos living under the same restrictions.

If as we are led to believe that Robert Murat is held in such high esteem and the local people or most of Portugal feel empathy for him, it would not have been that hard for him to carry on with his business would it?

If an independent Public Inquiry is not held into the gross incompetence and the appalling way this investigation has been handled, then I hope the McCann's sue the PJ, but something tells me they will not do this, although I have read that their lawyers think this action to be possible.

I am not surprised he settled out of court, I wrote a couple of weeks back that I felt this was the most likely scenario. I would have liked to see this go to court and the claims refuted publicly.

An independent Public Inquiry, would also do much to help Robert Murat, far more than any money he may receive from out of court settlement libel actions.

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Murat's payout

Post by tulip on Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:26 am

Libel damages aren't, of course, awarded only for loss of earnings, but rather the effect on a person's good name and reputation. While he may or may not have support from the locals, wherever he goes someone will think -- 'oh, that's the suspect in the McCann case'. In fact, this sort of attitude will often prevail among McCann supporters, of whom there are fortunately far more than the vicious anti blogs suggest. As a result of negative press coverage, there are lots of people who still believe 'there is something funny about Murat'. If he is innocent -- and he is in the eyes of the law -- then this is something that the law accepts should be redressed as far as possible. Murat's case is that he had nothing at all to do with Madeleine's disappearance; he did not know them, did not have anything to do with the decision to leave the children alone, and only wanted to be helpful.

Anyway, I can only cheer when anyone succeeds in getting damages from the press in this case, as it may, just may, discourage them from being so reckless in future. But no doubt they have done their sums and have scored financially even with the payouts. I hope the Portuguese press ARE brought to book, as well as their disgraceful sources. An independent public enquiry would certainly be first prize!
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Donk..

Post by Mandz on Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:50 am

If he was to write a book about the Joana case would he have told us the whole truth and nothing but the truth? Then why would anyone want to buy his book on Maddie case? The whole thing stinks.. :evil: :pig: :pig:
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Gonc

Post by tulip on Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:52 am

It does stink Mandz. I HOPE so much he'll get his just deserts.
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Re: Gonc tries to release his book

Post by Tinkerbell43 on Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:04 am

If the book is released before the secrecy order is lifted, it will be an absolute disgrace, not because it is Gonc, but because it is just plain wrong.

As for Gonc, It wouldn't be the first time he has been hasty would it, lets hope it has the same results and back fires on him. If its release date is driven by the publishers then imo they are obviously very concerned that once the secrecy order is lifted there will be only one story people will be interested in and it wont be that of a disgraced ex PJ Officer.

What goes around comes around, who knows, after September Gonc may well find himself the subject of a criminal best seller!!!!
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Gonc's book

Post by tulip on Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:08 am

If the book appears before the secrecy order is lifted there would be good cause for legal action wouldn't there? It would be SO blatant -- much more so than any of the leaks and 'private briefings'.
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However, The Papers Are Not Always Wrong!

Post by Rosie on Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:14 am

I realise how damages are awarded for libel, that was not my point. My point was that I would not dream of telling him how to spend his money, I said that personally I know I could not touch it.

My argument was that as we are led to believe that most of the Praia Da Luz community and most if the general public in Portugal and even here in his Norfolk hometown, were behind him and in fact empathised with him, how much was his 'good name' actually damaged?

If this had gone the distance and actually heard in a court, then of course this would be an argument put by the newspapers legal teams. This may be one of the reasons why he decided to settle out of court. That and to prevent further disclosures in court which may or may not have been found by the newspapers lawyers.

Where I do not disagree that newspapers generally print a lot of unfounded nonsense, they do sometimes get it right too.

I cite, Jonathan Aitkin ex Tory Grandee and cabinet minister, who resigned and then stood on the steps and threatened to expose the British media.

Here in Britain we have both the best media in the world and the worst media in the world. That small latter element is spreading a cancer in our society today, which I will call the cancer of bent and twisted journalism.

The malignant cells of that bent and twisted journalistic cancer include those who engage in forgeries or other instruments of deceit to obtain information for the purposes of a smear story.

They include those who hold grievances or grudges of their own and are prepared to give or sell false testimony about others to further their own bitter agendas.

And we all know what happened to Jonathan Aitkin!

Others, Jeffrey Archer and Neil Hamilton.

The press do not always get it wrong.

Personally I look forward to when the restrictions on the McCann case are lifted, because then I firmly believe that we will see just how good our investigative journalists can actually be!
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Lardy Boy in Lisbon

Post by archer on Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:39 am

Hi Helen

Any chance that your information about the publication date of Lardy Boy's book is just pre- publicity hype?? If it came from 24horas - chances are they have got it wrong anyway!!!! We all remember the old adage of "Never let the truth get in the way of a good story". mental That would work for Lardy Boy as much as the paper's.

I find it really strange that he could get away with doing this at this particular time, and he isn't exonerated by saying that it is in the hands of his publishers, therefore it is not down to him. We can be sure that the legal team of Kate and Gerry will be paying close attention to this. :study:
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Re: Gonc tries to release his book

Post by helenm on Sat Jul 19, 2008 6:05 am

Hi Archer, anything is possible. The 24th July is being bandied about.
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How Can

Post by Rosie on Sat Jul 19, 2008 6:43 am

Lardy boy be allowed to write and publish such a book about a case that theoretically is still ongoing? Not least, unless he wrote this "masterpiece" within the last couple of weeks, he must have written it while he was a serving policeman, isn't there laws about this kind of thing?

I wonder if this book was written by a ghost writer? If it was, then isn't he guilty of talking about an ongoing case thus breaking the secrecy laws surrounding it?

Equally, he has said that the truth is going to be in this book, then if he knows the truth, why didn't he reveal it when he was a serving policeman? Why has he saved it for this book publication?

So could he not be charged with withholding information about a crime?

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Re: Gonc tries to release his book

Post by helenm on Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:26 am

Hi Rosie,

This may answer a few of your questions:

Professional Secrecy

'But, besides the secrecy of justice, which includes for the time being the Maddie case, Gonçalo Amaral risks, with this book, another secret: the professional. “I am not bothered”, he assured. For this secrecy there are different opinions. According to Francisco Moita Flores, former PJ inspector, well known criminalist and current Mayor of Santarém, “Gonçalo Amaral is only obliged to the secrecy of justice”. Also the former PJ inspector Paulo Pereira Cristóvão, author of the books “Star of Joana” [Estrela de Joana] and “Maddie's Star” [Estrela de Maddie] states that “the professional secrecy is only violated when the official reveals specific techniques of the investigation, which deserve the whole reserve”. Besides, “in the case of a retired investigator, if proved and substantiated, the violation of the secrecy is punished by a financial fine”.

Gonçalo Amaral, 48 years, was removed of the investigation of the case Maddie, for a crime of opinion. “I understood, then, that it was time to do my public defence and asked immediately the retirement in order to reacquire the plenitude of my freedom of expression”, affirmed the former co-ordinator, according to whom “this book has the greater purpose to contribute to the discovery of the material truth and the achievement of justice”.




Source: 24Horas

+/-

+/-

by Joana Morais
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Hi Helen

Post by Rosie on Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:07 am

So basically, it is one rule for the PJ and another for the people they falsely accuse? Considering they did not even have to evoke this crazy secrecy rule in this case, seems to me that this investigation is just a complete and utter mess.

Gonc in October Ididn'tdoit

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Murat's money

Post by Guest on Sat Jul 19, 2008 6:45 pm

We discussed this on the Chatbox one evening. I agree that if the McCanns can sue, Murat, too, should be able to - after all they all have the same status.

I also believe that as far as employment is concerned it was easier on the practical side for Gerry McCann to get his job back, because by most people he and Kate are seen as victims. Gerry wanted to go back to work to get some semblance of normality back and he had a large institution behind him - the NHS. Murat, on the other hand, is not seen as the victim, but the perpetrator and as he was self-employed had no back-up. How many people wishing to purchase a home in Portugal would choose to use his services?

"Thanks" to the press neither the McCanns nor Murat will ever be free of suspicion, so I think they should take the money and do with it as they see fit. The McCanns' obvious priority is to find their daughter and if they succeed in this then it would be right to pass the money onto another charity for missing children as they had so much in the way of donations from the general public to start with. I really do not think they could justify keeping the money left in the fund after all expenses for Madeleine have been paid.

Murat's priority no doubt lies elsewhere - maybe with his own daughter. I think in the same situation I would not see the money being made off Madeleine's back - I would think of it as punishing the press what they had done to me.

If Murat is eventually found to be guilty of playing a part in Madeleine's disappearance, then the money won't help him anyway.

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Re: Gonc tries to release his book

Post by Rosie on Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:45 pm

I have never said that Murat shouldn't be allowed to sue, clearly he has the same rights and he has used those rights, no problems with that at all, I can't recall saying that he shouldn't be allowed to sue.

As far as employment is concerned, I believe it is actually easier for for Murat to return to work, in a climate where broadly people empathised with him. I also believe he had not launched his property business, his unused site Romigen will confirm that. I believe apparently, he and his family had a number of businesses, by and large mail order etc and people overseas would not necessarily know who they were dealing with, in all probability, they would be totally unaware. So if I were the papers defense, this is something that I would prepare as a defense.

Going back to work for Gerry McCann, was as we know thwarted by accusations, camera's with zoom lenses, comments about his 'ill fitting suit' and the length of his nose and who did he think he was talking to the press outside his place of work it went on and on and on? As far as getting back to work in the NHS, this is a huge machine and a very unforgiving machine, someone need only make one small error and that error will haunt them forever more and the person will be subject to the pointed finger and the whispers, wherever the person goes. Let me tell you the NHS grapevine is second to none. I believe also that Gerry McCann could not have patient contact for quite a while and I think (though not 100% sure) that even today he is employed in a research capacity and a teaching capacity, as his presence in the consulting room could prove a little tricky, so to speak. Probably journalists trying to get appointments and then God forbid he should come across one of the rabid little antis, so I would say that the effect on the employment of Gerry McCann is far greater than it was ever likely to be for Murat, because of the very nature of his work. Cardiologist Consultant vs Estate Agent? Gerry, cannot even cycle to work without comment being passed on him and nasty pictures appearing on the internet of him going about his business.

How many times have we seen this concerning Robert Murat? I have seen pictures of him, but nothing that bad, his woes pale against those of Kate and Gerry McCann. The worse pictures of Murat I have seen is him talking into a mobile phone. As far as I can see, no one has doctored pictures of him on the internet as pictures from the press have been taken and doctored of the McCann's and because the press have a habit of choosing the worse picture they can get their hands on!

This is not Murat's fault but I did not make the comparison.

From what I can see and have observed the McCann's have been forced to be seen as the perpetrators and this is as a direct result of the PJ, the Portuguese press and the British press. Robert Murat, is somewhat seen as an "also ran" in these stakes, in fact many people seem to forget he is in fact an arguido too!

So again, I would question to what extent his business has actually been damaged, or his good name. Not saying that it hasn't been damaged, only questioning the extent of that damage.

No one said that he shouldn't take the money and do with it as he sees fit, I certainly didn't and have no intention of telling him how to spend 'his money'. I said 'personally' I could not touch it as I would not be able to clear my mind how that money got there into my account.

I cannot think why it is justifiable for Murat to keep the money and spend on himself personally, while it is not alright or justifiable for the McCann's to spend their "damages" money personally? You yourself have said that there is no difference between Murat and the McCann's, so why should there be one rule for the McCann's and one for Murat?

They are both victims of the press presumably? Why seek to differentiate, if they are all victims of the press, then they are all victims and no emphasis should be put on one to spend his money as he sees fit, while expecting the McCann's not to.

The original fund money made up out of donations from the public, has all but been spent. Before the fund money ran out it was estimated that it would end in July, in fact accounts bear this up as this month it was reported that the fund had dwindled to around £500.000, which included those damages form the Express group newspapers! So the money in the fund now, is there because the McCann's have put it there, so at the moment there is nothing to be donated to other charities.

Madeleine is their daughter, why is it not justifiable that they should keep any of the money they have been awarded in damages? Their standard of life has been directly affected as Kate no longer feels able to go to work, this is probably due to many reasons, not least because it would be impossible for her to be a GP on a one to one basis in a surgery with patients. So it could be argued that their standard of life has been directly affected by adverse publicity. If we are making comparisons, where can the same be said of Robert Murat?

So punishing the press is also talking about suing witnesses, which I believe Murat's legal team have been instructed to do?

It was pointed out that the press are the bad guys, well yes they can be, no argument, but I did not say that the press were not bad or not wrong sometimes, I said that the press did not always get it wrong and they do not.

I point to some very famous cases such as ex Conservative cabinet minister Jonathan Aitkin and his 'trusted sword against the cancer of bent and twisted journalism!'

I point to him as he said he was going to root this out, you would have thought he was innocent, but it transpired, he was far from innocent. If it were not for the press he would have got away with his corruption, so the press are not always wrong!

Jeffrey Archer....Neil Hamilton, another two the press outed and were correct about.

Not saying that Murat is really guilty and I am not saying he has not suffered, what I am saying is that I do not agree that the press have gone for him that much. Usually, our press have gone in for sloppy journalism and instead of chasing their own stories down, they have got their info second hand badly translated from some Portuguese hack in some bar in PDL and also directly from the Portuguese press, which is why we saw the story in the PP one day and then appearing the next day in the British press.

If this went to court this is the kind of thing that the newspapers legal teams would have gone to great pains to outline, that and they would dispute how much of his life and his good name had actually been damaged. a judge would have to think of this in order to award damages.
I would have liked to see this case go into court, but as I said weeks ago, it would never get in there, I knew he would settle out of court if he could. far too much to lose if this went to court, it would rake the whole sorry mess up again and the papers defense would be raking away in his background.

I am not so sure that now this little "local difficulty" is out of the way and when the arguido status is finally lifted and the secrecy order lifted, that we are not going to see some of our famous British investigative journalism. The British press, I feel will not leave this here, i bet their spades are already honed and leaning against the desks of the journalists!

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Hiya Rosie - your answer to my answer to your answer!!!

Post by Guest on Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:02 pm

Rosiepops wrote: As far as employment is concerned, I believe it is actually easier for for Murat to return to work, in a climate where broadly people empathised with him. I also believe he had not launched his property business, his unused site Romigen will confirm that. I believe apparently, he and his family had a number of businesses, by and large mail order etc and people overseas would not necessarily know who they were dealing with, in all probability, they would be totally unaware. So if I were the papers defense, this is something that I would prepare as a defense.

Going back to work for Gerry McCann, was as we know thwarted by accusations, camera's with zoom lenses, comments about his 'ill fitting suit' and the length of his nose and who did he think he was talking to the press outside his place of work it went on and on and on? As far as getting back to work in the NHS, this is a huge machine and a very unforgiving machine, someone need only make one small error and that error will haunt them forever more and the person will be subject to the pointed finger and the whispers, wherever the person goes. Let me tell you the NHS grapevine is second to none. I believe also that Gerry McCann could not have patient contact for quite a while and I think (though not 100% sure) that even today he is employed in a research capacity and a teaching capacity, as his presence in the consulting room could prove a little tricky, so to speak. Probably journalists trying to get appointments and then God forbid he should come across one of the rabid little antis, so I would say that the effect on the employment of Gerry McCann is far greater than it was ever likely to be for Murat, because of the very nature of his work. Cardiologist Consultant vs Estate Agent? Gerry, cannot even cycle to work without comment being passed on him and nasty pictures appearing on the internet of him going about his business.

I have to say that I do not know all too much about Murat - I did read about him in the Times and all they mentioned that he had a property business, I don't know what other articles there are about him. If I were to buy a property in Portugal, I know full well I wouldn't want him helping me - I would steer well clear. Before all the press articles, I wouldn't have given it a second thought.

There seemed to be a great deal of sympathy for Gerry McCann as far as the NHS concerned - if there hadn't been, would he really have been re-employed and had the conditions changed to make things easier for him and the people working with him?

Rosiepops wrote: From what I can see and have observed the McCann's have been forced to be seen as the perpetrators and this is as a direct result of the PJ, the Portuguese press and the British press. Robert Murat, is somewhat seen as an "also ran" in these stakes, in fact many people seem to forget he is in fact an arguido too!

So again, I would question to what extent his business has actually been damaged, or his good name. Not saying that it hasn't been damaged, only questioning the extent of that damage.

No one said that he shouldn't take the money and do with it as he sees fit, I certainly didn't and have no intention of telling him how to spend 'his money'. I said 'personally' I could not touch it as I would not be able to clear my mind how that money got there into my account.

I cannot think why it is justifiable for Murat to keep the money and spend on himself personally, while it is not alright or justifiable for the McCann's to spend their "damages" money personally? You yourself have said that there is no difference between Murat and the McCann's, so why should there be one rule for the McCann's and one for Murat?

They are both victims of the press presumably? Why seek to differentiate, if they are all victims of the press, then they are all victims and no emphasis should be put on one to spend his money as he sees fit, while expecting the McCann's not to.

I also didn't say how the McCanns should spend their money. I think, however, that as they have had over a million pounds' worth of help from the public it wouldn't help them in the future as far as the fund is concerned if they then pocketed the money they got from the libel case while hoping others donate to the fund that helps them financially as well as helping in the search for Madeleine.

I agree that both the McCanns and Murat are victims of the press - absolutely, but the fact that the McCanns have had a harder time than Murat means nothing either. They have both had their reputations ruined.

Rosiepops wrote: The original fund money made up out of donations from the public, has all but been spent. Before the fund money ran out it was estimated that it would end in July, in fact accounts bear this up as this month it was reported that the fund had dwindled to around £500.000, which included those damages form the Express group newspapers! So the money in the fund now, is there because the McCann's have put it there, so at the moment there is nothing to be donated to other charities.

Madeleine is their daughter, why is it not justifiable that they should keep any of the money they have been awarded in damages? Their standard of life has been directly affected as Kate no longer feels able to go to work, this is probably due to many reasons, not least because it would be impossible for her to be a GP on a one to one basis in a surgery with patients. So it could be argued that their standard of life has been directly affected by adverse publicity. If we are making comparisons, where can the same be said of Robert Murat?

If we are making comparisons then we could also say that if indeed Robert Murat is innocent in the whole affair then he had absolutely nothing to do with it, whereas the McCanns started the whole chain of events - not deliberately or maliciously of course, but they did start them. (Don't all shoot me for saying that!) I do think that they should use as much money as is necessary to either find Madeleine or at least find out what happened to her, therapy, finding the guilty parties, etc. No doubt about that at all.

Rosiepops wrote: So punishing the press is also talking about suing witnesses, which I believe Murat's legal team have been instructed to do?

Absolutely not - how could anyone prove that someone else didn't think that they had seen Murat?

Rosiepops wrote: It was pointed out that the press are the bad guys, well yes they can be, no argument, but I did not say that the press were not bad or not wrong sometimes, I said that the press did not always get it wrong and they do not

Of course they aren't always wrong, but some do seem to have the same qualifications as the writers for Jackanory.

Rosiepops wrote:
I would have liked to see this case go into court, but as I said weeks ago, it would never get in there, I knew he would settle out of court if he could. far too much to lose if this went to court, it would rake the whole sorry mess up again and the papers defense would be raking away in his background.

I am not so sure that now this little "local difficulty" is out of the way and when the arguido status is finally lifted and the secrecy order lifted, that we are not going to see some of our famous British investigative journalism. The British press, I feel will not leave this here, i bet their spades are already honed and leaning against the desks of the journalists!

Surely journalists could still investigate his background, even if his libel suit didn't go to court. Actually they have probably never stopped investigating since all this started.

Let's hope that the British investigative journalists do a better job than the PJ - IMHO it couldn't really have been worse!


Last edited by sass on Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:47 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : grammar mistake)

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Re Murat

Post by christabel on Sun Jul 20, 2008 1:34 am

Rosie,
I couldn't agree more with your comments re Murat.
He did'n't only sell leather jackets, nor did he only have one property business. He was in still in partnership with one of his fathers old partners, plus other real estate business's. So sorry but his pleading poverty doesn't wash.
Why did he close Romigen so quickly into his arguido status? I would have thought there was no need to do this so quickly or was it already in trouble? If he had so many friends why couldn't he work? He could have got a job as a PJ surely with friends in high places.
My thoughts on Murat still stand as they did from day one, and will not change.
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Murat

Post by calcite51 on Sun Jul 20, 2008 1:48 am

I am not commenting on Murat as Madeleine's case was so badly handled by the PJ's that I am not prepared to convict Murat in the public opinion arena - obviously the leaks from the PJ's were misleading. As far as the money from the newspapers, it was awarded to Murat and he will be deciding what to do with the money. Once a man's reputation is tarnished, it is hard to recover from (IMO).
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Tulip's comment

Post by calcite51 on Sun Jul 20, 2008 1:50 am

tulip wrote:Libel damages aren't, of course, awarded only for loss of earnings, but rather the effect on a person's good name and reputation. While he may or may not have support from the locals, wherever he goes someone will think -- 'oh, that's the suspect in the McCann case'. In fact, this sort of attitude will often prevail among McCann supporters, of whom there are fortunately far more than the vicious anti blogs suggest. As a result of negative press coverage, there are lots of people who still believe 'there is something funny about Murat'. If he is innocent -- and he is in the eyes of the law -- then this is something that the law accepts should be redressed as far as possible. Murat's case is that he had nothing at all to do with Madeleine's disappearance; he did not know them, did not have anything to do with the decision to leave the children alone, and only wanted to be helpful.

Anyway, I can only cheer when anyone succeeds in getting damages from the press in this case, as it may, just may, discourage them from being so reckless in future. But no doubt they have done their sums and have scored financially even with the payouts. I hope the Portuguese press ARE brought to book, as well as their disgraceful sources. An independent public enquiry would certainly be first prize!

I agree completely with Tulip's comment - maybe the press will learn to be a little bit more professional in their reporting and yes, let's hope that the newspapers from Portugal who have gotten so much leaked wrong information, is taken to task as well.
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Re: Gonc tries to release his book

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