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Casa Pia convictions.

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Casa Pia convictions.

Post by vee8 on Sat Sep 04, 2010 5:23 am

http://thehoundingofthemccans.blogspot.com/2010/09/bbc-portugal-casa-pia.html





Six Portuguese men have been jailed after they were found guilty of sexual abuse at a state-run children's home.




Carlos Silvino was given an 18-year sentence after confessing to 639 charges relating to the abuse of children or procuring them for others.



His co-defendants, including the former TV presenter Carlos Cruz, were jailed for between five and seven years.



The boys, now aged between 16 and 22, were all residents at the Casa Pia children's home in the capital, Lisbon.



Continue reading the main story

Related stories




•How child sex abuse case stunned Portugal


•Profiles: Child abuse defendants


The panel of three judges in the case spent most of the day reading the full verdict in each of the hundreds of sexual abuse accusations.



After ruling that the vast majority of the charges had been proven, they handed down guilty verdicts to six of the seven people on trial.



Silvino, a 54-year-old former driver for Casa Pia who abused boys on hundreds of occasions and later offered them to other men for cash, was convicted on all charges.



Cruz and Joao Ferreira Diniz, a doctor, were each given seven-year sentences, while retired ambassador Jorge Ritto got six years and eight months.



Continue reading the main story

“Start Quote




These men have to be condemned, they committed barbarous crimes against humanity”

End Quote Pedro Namora Former Casa Pia pupil and victim


Hugo Marcal, a lawyer, was sentenced to six years and two months, while former Casa Pia governor Manuel Abrantes was sentenced to five years and nine months.



But Gertrudes Nunes, a woman who was alleged to have allowed her house in Elvas to be used by the abusers, was acquitted on all charges.



The six had denied the allegations and said their lives had been ruined.



"This is one of the most monstrous judicial mistakes in Portuguese history," Cruz said, dismissing the verdict as built on "lies and manipulation" and part of a "vendetta" against him.

Horrific injuries

Pedro Namora, a lawyer and former pupil who helped expose the scandal in 2002, hailed the verdicts, and earlier said: "I hope this day will allow us to show the country that the boys have told the truth from the start."



"These men have to be condemned, they committed barbarous crimes against humanity," he added.



One of the victims, Bernardo Teixeira, said he felt "very emotional".



Continue reading the main story

Casa Pia scandal timeline




•September 2002: Mother of one boy tells police he has been sexually abused by a former Casa Pia driver and gardener, Carlos Silvino


•November 2002: Journalist Felicia Cabrita reveals the scandal in Expresso newspaper


•February 2003: Social workers say they have uncovered 130 cases of child abuse at the main Casa Pia home, dating back to the 1970s


•December 2003: Prosecutors charge 10 people with the sexual abuse of children at Casa Pia, including several celebrities and top officials


•June 2004: Judge throws out charges against three suspects, including a leading politician


•November 2004: Six men and one woman go on trial, accused of sexually abusing 32 children


•May 2005: The 32 victims starting giving evidence


•March 2006: Court orders the government to pay 2m euros in compensation to 44 former Casa Pia residents, saying it had failed to protect them


•September 2010: Six men are convicted and sentenced to between five and 18 years in prison


"I cannot believe we have finally reached this day," he added. "It was very hard to be forced to go back in time and remember all those horrifying experiences."



Another victim, Bernardo Tavares, told Portuguese state television: "It is difficult, but... when we hear our name linked to proven facts this gives us more strength."



"There is anxiety, tensions are running high in there, our seats are probably the hottest because we have waited many years for this day. It is one of the days we have most looked forward to, the day when finally justice will be done and when finally those who have committed crimes will be sentenced for them."



The case is one of the longest-running in Portuguese history, lasting more than five years, with testimony from more than 800 witnesses and experts.



During the trial, the 32 victims gave gruesome testimony about being raped by adults in dark cellars, cars and secluded houses.



"Some of the accounts could be considered pornographic," the lead judge, Ana Peres, told the courtroom on Friday.



One of the victims, now in his early 20s, was so seriously abused that he was now incontinent, a lawyer told the BBC.



Almost all of them identified their abusers by pointing them out in the courtroom.



However, the BBC's Sarah Rainsford in Lisbon says it is thought that there may be many other victims who are still too frightened to speak out.



Abuse at Casa Pia is said to have started in the mid-1970s, but was not discovered until 2002


The abuse at Casa Pia is said to have started in the mid-1970s, but was not discovered until 2002, when the mother of a boy placed at a state-run home in Lisbon said he had been abused by staff there.



Casa Pia, or Pious House, is a 230-year-old institution which cares for about 4,500 orphans and underprivileged children through a network of homes and schools.



This case is not the only one spawned by the investigation that began in 2002.



Seven other trials have already run their course, with some of those found guilty themselves former Casa Pia pupils.



In March 2006, a court ordered the Portuguese government to pay 2m euros (£1.66m) in compensation to 44 former Casa Pia residents, saying it had failed in its duty to protect them.





Are you in Portugal? Have you been affected by the issues raised in this story?



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11179026









The following are pen portraits of some of the most high-profile defendants found guilty of abusing children in the care of the state-run Casa Pia home in Portugal's capital Lisbon.




Carlos Crus







Born in 1942, Carlos Cruz was a popular Portuguese TV presenter and producer.




He fronted a number of successful shows during his three-decade career in the media business.




He was arrested in 2003.




On Friday, Crus immediately dismissed the verdict as a "mistake" and the result of "a vendetta".




Jorge Ritto







Jorge Ritto is a decorated Portuguese career diplomat.




He was also a Unesco ambassador, retiring in 2002.




He denies all the charges.




Carlos Silvino



Carlos Silvino, known as Bibi, is a 54-year-old former driver and a former pupil at the Casa Pia.




He is the only defendant who has confessed to some of the crimes at the children's home.
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Re: Casa Pia convictions.

Post by jean on Sat Sep 04, 2010 9:35 am

Let us hope that Portugal now wakes up to these horrific accusations and decides to do something about all the paedophiles that are running free around its country.

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Re: Casa Pia convictions.

Post by bluj1515 on Sun Sep 05, 2010 2:03 am

Maria/Pedro, could you let us know what the prevailing attitudes are in Portugal about these convictions? I understand there's a lot of doubts and anger with the process...

Jean, I really don't think there's anything special about Portugal that means they have pedophiles running free around their country. The crimes are illegal and always have been; it wasn't so long ago neither of our countries had a register.
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Re: Casa Pia convictions.

Post by Pedro Silva on Sun Sep 05, 2010 3:43 am

All I know is that people wants to see Casa Pia situation resolved once and for all, this is what I have seen in the news.

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Re: Casa Pia convictions.

Post by maria on Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:54 pm

Blu

It comforts me very very much that you perceived those doubts in spite of the massive wave, smoke curtain, call it anything, that has been created.

I have in the past in other threads tried to explain two or three things about this. I currently feel extremely disapointed by this court, these judges.

1. Long long ago (don't ask me the dates please but that was stil in the nineties and even before), a PJ lady inspector stumbled on a case of male prostitution at Parque Eduardo VII with underaged children from Casa Pia and involving some big figures. She was told to drop the investigation, which she did not and as result she was removed to the drug squad and the files collected so far were 'avocated' by another inspector, Dias André, who destroyed most of them, leaving one or two just in case. As a note, that lady inspector removed to the drug squad was later accused of stealing police money (30 or 40 000euros), jailed for three years (attempted suicide three times in jail) and sentenced this year or last year. She did not attend the sentencing as she was ill, but her lawyer took her place in front of the court and filed a recourse imediately afterwards.

2. The situation in the field, I mean, at Parque Eduardo VII and other places of Lisbon was so scandalous that PJ had to take action. They started 'unwinding' the old case, now renamed 'Caso do Parque' or 'Processo do Parque' and 'discovered' the 'Processo Casa Pia'.

3. Summary of these two points:
a. there is a case of paedophilia and male prostitution fuelled on children/teens from Casa Pia.
b. Some of the prostitutes acted on their own and as pimps, others (most of them?) were driven to the 'meeting places' by Carlos Silvino and it is said by others as well, as it seems there were/are several rings operating at Casa Pia.

4. From the 'Processo do Parque' several condemnations have already been applied and it seems to me that it is ended by now (may be some recourses are still under evaluation), but interestingly enough none of the accused denied the acts and none of the accused are high 'rank'. (public figures yes, but not high rank)

5. With exception of Carlos Silvino (Bibi), ALL the arguidos in the Casa Pia process always denied everything or any connection with Casa Pia. No one ever denied that the 'victims' of this process may have been abused, only that they were NOT abused by these people. And the fact is that every testimony is self contradictory or out of reality. PJ directly interferred in the questionings of the victims, TVI (remember TVI, remember?) payed them trips here and there, exclusive interviews, jobs. They said that, IT IS IN THE PROCESS.

6. It took years the investigation. Some 60.000 pages of paper (Madeleine's was much more productive, 20.000 in 10 months...). I could go on with many many things but I'll finish with just this: the arguidos answered and rebuffed the best they could the accusations that the prosecutor put to them, apparently everything was cleared up. One of the arguidos was accused of an abuse on day X at hotel Z. He proved that at that date a. he was in Brazil and b. the hotel did not exist. The prosecution, AFTER the final summing up, entered a recourse stating 'oh well, you may be right, it must have been some other date and other hotel' AND THE COURT ACCEPTED IT, he was sentenced for that crime.

Thinking better, yet another one. The house in Elvas, a quiet place in a quiet small border city, scenario of huge orgies, with tens of kids at the same time and almost all the arguidos who arrived there in top range cars. The 'victim' chosen to go there to identify the place (request by the court, footage available) couldn't define exactly the place, as everything had been changed, the house layout I mean, with walls that existed at the time of abuse, rooms that vanished from the entrance hall or staircases that 'moved' from left to right etc. It has been proved that the house has never been modified since it was built in the 70s or 80s can't remember. Anyhow, all these orgies and actors resumed to that victim and ONE arguido that was convicted for having been seen (by that victim) TWICE at the door of the house being that door opened from the inside by another arguido (I don't remember if this second arguido was sentenced for having been seen opening the door).

Some footages are already available, in portuguese I'm afraid, and it takes soooo long to watch them that I can't promise that I'll even try to translate them. Anyway, body language is very clear.

http://www.processocarloscruz.com/

The text is google translatable.
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Re: Casa Pia convictions.

Post by rosemary on Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:46 am

So what should we be thinking maria? That the PJ is capable of corruption of the legal process - this we know. That some of those found guilty are innocent? That the law in Portugal cannot be trusted? That vendettas and Political motivations are rampant in Portugal?

Sorry but having read your post I am rather confused. What exactly do you wish us to believe? Can you summarise what you would like us to understand? Inparticular is Casa Pia hearing going to be known as a mock trial or a success?

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Re: Casa Pia convictions.

Post by bluj1515 on Mon Sep 06, 2010 2:07 am

Maria, thank you for all of that. I am going to post it on PFA2.

That large orgy story tends to a hallmark of all of these cases, and I must say my antenna goes up when I hear it... it is sadly used by many unscrupulous people to make an already terrible situation sound even worse, to anger people, to have them calling for blood. Bennett and Co. are currently working on their own - they have turned to this conspiracy theory dark side to explain Madeleine going missing.

It is the same thing in all of these cases... no one doubts the victims have been abused... but abused by whom? And how and when... some of them are so damaged and eager to please people who are "helping" them that they will lie... or tell the people "helping" them what they want to hear. There was a famous case here in the United States that Bennett is currently talking about a lot - under the title The Franklin Conspiracy - that is similar.

There's no justice in convicting the wrong people, in protecting the truly guilty, in replacing true justice with virtual mob justice.

This is not to put down the victims... their pain is real and I have no doubt that many of them if not all were victims of abuse.
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Re: Casa Pia convictions.

Post by bluj1515 on Mon Sep 06, 2010 2:16 am

rosemary wrote:So what should we be thinking maria? That the PJ is capable of corruption of the legal process - this we know. That some of those found guilty are innocent? That the law in Portugal cannot be trusted? That vendettas and Political motivations are rampant in Portugal?

Sorry but having read your post I am rather confused. What exactly do you wish us to believe? Can you summarise what you would like us to understand? Inparticular is Casa Pia hearing going to be known as a mock trial or a success?

I believe what Maria is saying is that initially the PJ and other government members flew to shut up the PJ officer who stumbled across it, that there were more people involved who are more culpable, that some of the people they convicted were innocent, had alibis, and were convicted anyway, and that some of the convictions are based on one person's account, one victim's account, and even they can only place the person at the scene, not actually committing the abuse.

I would say that she is saying that this trial was designed to make the public happy that Casa Pia was finally being "dealt" with, but that no justice has been served, that mob justice has prevailed. They got the public swept up in it and then gave them heads on a platter to shut them up. But it's not the whole truth and the truly guilty have not been found guilty.

It has happened in Britain and it has happened in the United States in high-profile, emotional investigations of all kinds when the public gets too involved and is baying for blood.
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Re: Casa Pia convictions.

Post by Cath on Mon Sep 06, 2010 5:04 am

bluj1515 wrote:
rosemary wrote:So what should we be thinking maria? That the PJ is capable of corruption of the legal process - this we know. That some of those found guilty are innocent? That the law in Portugal cannot be trusted? That vendettas and Political motivations are rampant in Portugal?

Sorry but having read your post I am rather confused. What exactly do you wish us to believe? Can you summarise what you would like us to understand? Inparticular is Casa Pia hearing going to be known as a mock trial or a success?

I believe what Maria is saying is that initially the PJ and other government members flew to shut up the PJ officer who stumbled across it, that there were more people involved who are more culpable, that some of the people they convicted were innocent, had alibis, and were convicted anyway, and that some of the convictions are based on one person's account, one victim's account, and even they can only place the person at the scene, not actually committing the abuse.

I would say that she is saying that this trial was designed to make the public happy that Casa Pia was finally being "dealt" with, but that no justice has been served, that mob justice has prevailed. They got the public swept up in it and then gave them heads on a platter to shut them up. But it's not the whole truth and the truly guilty have not been found guilty.

It has happened in Britain and it has happened in the United States in high-profile, emotional investigations of all kinds when the public gets too involved and is baying for blood.

Yes, I too think that's what she's saying. What you said has happened in The Netherlands too.
I expressed my concerns about at least one of the convicted people on pfa.
With the same link Maria provided. Question 9 is interesting.

Maria, the lady PJ inspector you're referring to, is she Ana Paula da Costa Matos?

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Re: Casa Pia convictions.

Post by jean on Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:44 am

Jean, I really don't think there's anything special about Portugal that means they have pedophiles running free around their country. The crimes are illegal and always have been; it wasn't so long ago neither of our countries had a register.


It is strange that paedophiles from the UK go to live in Portugal, especially on the Algarve, because the authorities there turn a blind eye to their activities. In days gone by no one would admit that paedophilia existed. I certainly didn't hear of it until a few years ago, because it wasn't something that was talked about. I think it is only since the internet has become widely available to these 'sick' people that registers have had to be introduced.

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Re: Casa Pia convictions.

Post by bluj1515 on Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:34 am

I think they go to Portugal because there is a high enough percentage of British ex-pats that they can speak the language, etc. without there being so many that someone would know who they were, etc. And the rest of their reasoning is the same reason lots of people move there - the weather, etc.

I think not have a register and not having good information sharing is a plus, of course. I don't think the authorities universally turn a blind eye, but it's obvious they have some difficulties with investigating certain crimes and that there is a heavy public fear of the police, cooperating with the police, etc. However, there's articles regularly in the Portuguese papers of police busting pedophiles, etc.

One could say it's equally on the British that their child predators are allowed to disappear into other nations without any consequence at all.
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Re: Casa Pia convictions.

Post by maria on Mon Sep 06, 2010 7:53 pm

I too am tired of all this, as Pedro said earlier. but the whole thing is so sickening that I will not go away, I'll go on trying to make it clear.

When I said up there that the situation became unbearable and they had to 'discover' the Casa Pia process, I was in fact referring to a situation when a few pupils of Casa Pia helped by adult ex-Casapians decided to present to the President of the Republic a letter or areport on something that was going on. PJ was secretly 'on it' already (the files that were not destroyed from the initial investigation), the President passed it to his secretary responsible for the matter, and the media, TVI Felícia Cabrita, jumped on the subject like hiennas. Only after that PJ 'sources' started working and in less than a blink of the eye, the arguidos were named publicly, only days later were they taken in to questioning.

One of them, Carlos Cruz, on a saturday morning, left home calmly with his family in his 4X4 as he used to do every fortnight (not sure if it was every week), the PJ in charge of his surveillance did not have a car and another one was called to follow him on a bike. he left about half an hour later, but he knew very well where Cruz was heading: his in-laws house in Algarve. Speeding up on the motorway, they alerted PJ in Algarve and sent two agents to the family door and when Cruz arrived there the three of them trying to identify him discovered that he had no identity documents on him, national id card, driving license, passport. He had left everything at his Cascais home (his wife had to take everything later to the police) and no money, no luggage. He was then taken to jail, not because he was undocumented, but because he was trying to run away to Spain. I have read this in the papers but I've known it first hand as I was that weekend at a village where Cruz used to have a countryhouse and the news arrived there before he arrived at PJ office, I'm sure. As I said already, no searches where made (it is commented that a PJ suggested that to Dias André and he answered 'do you think I'm dumb? I don't risk finding illibating proofs'. Oh, he was drunk at that moment, it seems he speaks a lot when drunk).

The sentencing document is around 2000 pages long, so only a gist was read. It is however mandatory that when a crime is recognised as having been committed by a defendant, the reasons/proofs are enumerated to justify the penalty. This was not done and when requested by the lawyers they got the answer 'you'll get it on wednesday, in writing, from the court services'. Needless to say that this sentencing, this gist, was public, with the whole world there via satelite, only the interested will read the full document.

As I already said, the prosecution changed the charges as the trial went along, and the defendants presented their proofs of innocence. It appears that whenever they were successfull, the accusation changed dates, places. Until the days when the final arguments were read/spoken. After these final arguments, the prosecution entered an appeal changing 40 of the accusations. There would be no way that the defendants could answer. It was up to the court to accept or reject this appeal. The court accepted, changed the accusations and were taken in consideration on the conviction. Fair trial?

What do I want you to think about this? Nothing, only that you keep your mind wide open. The process will be published, so we will know how things went on in court. The defendants will appeal most or all of them based on obvious court errors, the court to where the appeals will be directed (Relação) are already prepared (it was said officially) not to delay much more the process, some defendants will imediately go to European court.

By the way, the PGR has called for a meeting with João Aibéu the prosecutor in charge of the process to discuss it.

Books are being published. An Arguido tells us that he was in such a desperate state to gain time before being put into preventive jail so that he couldgrab proofs of his innocence, that he went to the toilet and ate soap, so that he could go home searching for those proofs.

I have to go now. Later today I'll be back.
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Re: Casa Pia convictions.

Post by clairesy on Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:28 pm

I believe what Maria is saying is that initially the PJ and other government members flew to shut up the PJ officer who stumbled across it, that there were more people involved who are more culpable, that some of the people they convicted were innocent, had alibis, and were convicted anyway, and that some of the convictions are based on one person's account, one victim's account, and even they can only place the person at the scene, not actually committing the abuse.

One victim is all it takes to make you a peado.And to be honest being present at a place where children are being abused and not doing anything about it makes you guilty in my eyes.Just as much as watching child porn on the pc makes you guilty of child abuse charges.
I don't doubt the evidence given by those who were abused at all.IMO the only reason some are being suggested as maybe innocent is because they are given alibis.

Like carlos once said (and i shall never forget it)...''they cant touch me there are too many big people involved in this''

Aint so cocky now though is he!!

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Re: Casa Pia convictions.

Post by maria on Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:52 pm

Cath, yes it was Ana Paula. Didn't check the family names.

Inparticular is Casa Pia hearing going to be known as a mock trial or a success?

Do you really want to know what I feel?

This trial took very long, time has passed. Now we will have the appeals. Knowlegeable people like the Lawyers Bar Bastonário, feel that the appeals take always longer than the process itself. Crimes prescribe after 20 years. Some crimes at Casa Pia are already prescribed. While the appeal process is not complete, there will be no jail or repayements to anyone.

HOWEVER

The police, prosecutor and judges' "errors" are in such number and so gross and visible, the accused are so firm and have such a good proof of innocence, that I hope and believe that everything may come back to square zero. Afterall, making justice is not destroying anyone life because someone else's has been destroyed. A process archiving never serves justice and in this case could even leave other victims, the unfairly accused. I hope that the appeals are treated qickly (not hastily) and a proper investigation and fair trial are concluded, with the recognition of the State responsibilty on the situation and the REAL perpretators on stand.

HOWEVER

Although I think that there is time to declare a mistrial and a flawed investigation giving the opportunity to clear the names of some people, I do not trust our justice operators, PJ, PGR and Judges that much.

SO

There will be no internal investigation on PJ and PGR, as usual. (Madeleine's case is a good example). Judges well.

The real criminals have not been charged, are and will remain free.

That's what I feel. Much to my shame and disgust. It is so beautiful this country!

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Re: Casa Pia convictions.

Post by bluj1515 on Tue Sep 07, 2010 2:25 am

clairesy wrote:
I believe what Maria is saying is that initially the PJ and other government members flew to shut up the PJ officer who stumbled across it, that there were more people involved who are more culpable, that some of the people they convicted were innocent, had alibis, and were convicted anyway, and that some of the convictions are based on one person's account, one victim's account, and even they can only place the person at the scene, not actually committing the abuse.

One victim is all it takes to make you a peado.And to be honest being present at a place where children are being abused and not doing anything about it makes you guilty in my eyes.Just as much as watching child porn on the pc makes you guilty of child abuse charges.
I don't doubt the evidence given by those who were abused at all.IMO the only reason some are being suggested as maybe innocent is because they are given alibis.

Like carlos once said (and i shall never forget it)...''they cant touch me there are too many big people involved in this''

Aint so cocky now though is he!!


Clairsey, the point about one victim is not that the person wasn't abused but that he was abused but by whom? And no, to me, it's not enough to ruin someone, to convict them on a court of law, because someone who suffered terrible abuse as a child thinks they saw them in a blink of an eye, after the person was presented to them as their abuser by the police, after they were presented a picture of the person and asked, is this the man that was there? It's BIASED, it's no better than what they did to the McCanns. If they'd been serious they would have interviewed every single person that set foot there, every owner of an alleged house, provided a lineup of men to pick which one, etc. That's not what they did. They've just served up these 7 on a platter to make the public shut up while the real perps go away.

Throughout the world when unscrupulous people like Robert Green, like Tony Bennett, want to get the public into a frenzy, they steal the "boring" abuse stories of real victims like the children of Casa Pia and turn them into the frenzied orgies, rich people parties, etc. It's the same the world over and it's always unproven, but enough that the public goes crazy.

It's NOT justice that you throw dart at a dartboard and maybe get some guilty people but some innocents too.

Why do you think they were "given" alibis? The people convicted are the ones NOT being protected by the government- while they protect people ACTUALLY involved.
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Re: Casa Pia convictions.

Post by maria on Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:08 am

So what should we be thinking maria? That the PJ is capable of corruption of the legal process - this we know.

Good, one down.

That some of those found guilty are innocent?

Some at least are innocent indeeed.

That the law in Portugal cannot be trusted?

Not exactly 'the law' but the law agents, or to be fair, some law agents.

That vendettas and Political motivations are rampant in Portugal?

Bingo!
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Re: Casa Pia convictions.

Post by maria on Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:23 am

One victim is all it takes to make you a peado

So very true.

But being a victim does not ensure you are not a liar, or can never lie.

During the investigation, this very victim signed a statement saying that he never met this specific 'perpetrator', it is in the process. Then during trial, the COURT, the judges, took him to the house of Elvas that he described during the investigation, it is in the process,and he did not recognise it (it's in the video). So, during the investigation he did not know this paedo, in court he already did know, and was abused by him at a house that he couldn't describe.

The truth is that he is a liar on top of being a victim.
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Re: Casa Pia convictions.

Post by Catkins on Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:30 am

maria wrote:
So what should we be thinking maria? That the PJ is capable of corruption of the legal process - this we know.

Good, one down.

That some of those found guilty are innocent?

Some at least are innocent indeeed.

That the law in Portugal cannot be trusted?

Not exactly 'the law' but the law agents, or to be fair, some law agents.

That vendettas and Political motivations are rampant in Portugal?

Bingo!
Shaking Head Its a wonder that some of the abused people don't shout out that the wrong people are being blamed.........
A lot of reading on Houndings.... I haven't had time yet to read it....

http://thehoundingofthemccans.blogspot.com/?zx=82601de733dfa6ef
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Re: Casa Pia convictions.

Post by bluj1515 on Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:05 am

I don't think they know (that's it the wrong people), Cat. I think they grow convinced it is the man, or they are so angry, understandably so, or it seems plausible, etc.
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Re: Casa Pia convictions.

Post by clairesy on Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:46 am

I dont think you can be mistaken when you have been repeatedly abused over the years by someone blue.I think there are soo many involved in this case...loads more who have not been tracked down and brought to justice,people who are no doubt still abusing children.So yes i guess its possible that like you said those 7 are just a few possibly used to shut up the case and get it over while the rest are left to go free...however it don't make them innocent and bibi certainly aint.

but those handful of victims who have come forward to testify against those 7 being jailed?? I believe them. They aint about to forget the ones who abused them,they have probably seen their rotten faces in flashbacks of what happened to them at that home.I wish them all the best and hope they can move on from it now that they have some sort justice.I just hope that they would get the rest of them who are involved and lock them up to. Hang them all would be better.

Please don't think i don't see what your saying when you talk about the system protecting higher up people and putting the lower ones to the forefront of this case instead because i do understand that.And it doesn't surprise me either.Although i dont think it makes them any more innocent.And the very fact that there are victims who identify them makes me thankful they have been caught and jailed.Like i said i doubt very much those victims will forget in a hurry,and sometimes what others describe as a small amount of detail is actually a lot more to those who have to suffer the flashbacks of those details.Im happy that they are punching the air with delight when they seen their abusers being jailed.
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Re: Casa Pia convictions.

Post by maria on Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:18 pm

Clairesy

I can see your big heart in your posts.

But in this case, and others as well, heart is a bad advisor. You need to be cerebral, cold. 'They' are and that is the only way to fight and unmask 'them'.

Some points at random:

1. Carlos Silvino (Bibi) did never claim innocence, he assumed both direct abuse and selecting the children/teens to be delivered to other abusers.
2. These victims that spoke out did not come forward on their own, not all of them anyway, and furthermore they were not the only ones to come forward. They were chosen by PJ to give evidence. Others were dismissed because of reasons known to Dias André (PJ) and João Aibéu (PG).
3. There are many more victims that didn't come forward for fear and other reasons. There is even a letter (of support) to Carlos Cruz from a casapian that left the institution in 1982 and was abused by Ritto, but this case is certainly prescribed by now.
http://www.processocarloscruz.com/index.php?pag=perguntas&id=5
4. Back to the victims that came forward. I do not deny that they have been victims. They have grown up in a very agressive and unhealthy environment. The fact that some became drug dealers or pimps or honest workers does not erase the fact that they were victims once. The only problem here is that the evidence that they provided against these accused does not stand. Even Ritto, mentioned on that letter above, the description provided by these victims does not coincide with the general description on that letter nor between them!
5. We all, I, more than anything, want justice to be served, which in the case is little more than unmask the real perpretrators (all of them if possible) and lock them up and destroy the key. But 'investigations', 'trials', 'statements' like these only serve to divert attentions and buy time for the real criminals to move sideways and go on with their life of crime - undisturbed.
6. One must be very careful, the criminals should be named unmasked and convicted. It simply is not good enough to throw some names and grill them branding this as 'justice'. That was done in the middle age, it is long long ago. The world has come a long way since.

Another interesting piece

http://www.processocarloscruz.com/index.php?pag=perguntas&id=5
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Re: Casa Pia convictions.

Post by maria on Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:42 pm

Google translation of
http://www.processocarloscruz.com/index.php?pag=content&link=intro

Advanced note - Cruz translates into Cross so Carlos cruz is tranlated into Carlos (or Charles) Cross - maria


**********************
THE GREAT ENEMY OF TRUTH IS OFTEN NOT LIE - DELIBERATE, ORGANISED is dishonest - BUT THE MYTH, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. BELIEVE MYTHS ALLOWS the comfort of having VIEW WITHOUT THE DISCOMFORT OF HAVING TO THINK - John F. Kennedy




For over seven years was "stuck" so absurd, inexplicable, mendacious and perverse, in the process called Casa Pia.

Just come to the Algarve for a weekend with my family at the house of my in-laws, was arrested on the grounds that there were indications of having committed two crimes of sexual abuse. They could have arrested me two hours before in my home. The next day, the official version was that I went on the run, I do not know where to go: no passport, no ID card, a change of clothes in the suitcase and a laptop.

My "escape" is of the greatest fictions Process Casa Pia but she was also the beginning of a story built on lies, inventions and fables. There is no evidence of attempted escape. One inspector said he had information that I was preparing to flee. No one knows where it came from such information.

As it was necessary that the people believed that blunder, "a source" tells the newspaper Publico that I had transferred all my money to Brazil. The journal publishes without any inquiry at least at the Bank where I have done the transfer. In the days following ensued false news (its falsehood eventually recognized by the journalists themselves, who refused to reveal the source): "Auditors to undertake Zero Cross", "Scouts and videos undertake Cross," "Cross in the list of pedophiles FBI, "" Contradictions between defendants "(without ever having been heard) etc., etc..

Faced with such a massacre was created mass hysteria and conviction typical of such processes which are many, in several countries. Join him 15 months probation, plus some house arrest following the ban and then leaving the district where I live and easily realize the verdict of the trial in the public square: GUILTY!

The Media was replenished daily by the "sources". We now know who they were until some of which involved the Judge himself Director of the Judicial Police. They published excerpts are selected from surgically depositions and other documents on secret Justice. Journalists who arrived there to receive a few lines of some documents with the omission of the parties that contradicted its contents or that it revealed improbable.

Some Social Communication and research went hand in hand: the Media and the investigation had sold the people on your side, asking for blood. This is a summary of Process Casa Pia. In this "marriage" had joined a few characters whose motivations are not hard to guess and, finally, the total incompetence and irresponsibility of some figures here that have their "15 minutes of glory." If you still have some glimmer of consciousness, the past seven years are beings realize how ephemeral and perhaps even taste some bitterness of remorse.

In February this year, the Supreme Judicial Council wrote that should be done "a tremendous job of analysis and reflection that should be in the" Casa Pia "its case study." And: "The phase of the trial process" Casa Pia "lasted for over five years. This figure reflects objective, with an evidence never seen before, the inefficiency of our system of justice."

For all this I decided to open this. But also for other reasons: during these years I recognize that there are people who consider me guilty, others have doubts and others swear by my innocence. This is a process of faith and beliefs in the midst of which rise some fundamentalisms. I understand that after all the intoxication where some have more faults than others. Many of my friends were telling me their discussions, the arguments of those who condemned me without any valid argument. And they were communicating to me some of the questions they did: and then this? And that? And the videos? And the photographs? And listening?

This site, this space, plans to start by answering the questions most commonly presenting evidence and documents that the public never saw. People know what the media gives them, that is, a tiny part and which is often reported with evident partiality. For journalists there is also the division of opinion there are compromises and complicity or not to come to lose their 'sources'.

This site will be enriched and updated: answer these questions I will answer as they arrive since the author is identified properly and ask questions with civility. As also accept clues to help reach the part of truth possible. It is this process, the way it was organized and led, eventually making it impossible to know who were and / or are the real abusers. It was "a cloud of smoke to hide an atomic explosion mushroom" in the words of journalist John Paul unerring War João Paulo Guerra. Answer to everything. Completed the Trial Court. But ascertaining the truth continues.

And why in the name of the people who judge the judges, I think people are entitled to know in detail what was to be tried. So, appropriately, put the process here in full, properly indexed so that people can seek answers to your questions and confirm that evidence, without room for any doubt that I am innocent. I am after all a victim of the victims!



One final comment: this process will go down in history as a Portuguese Justice huge bruise. The future will give me reason. But despite this monstrosity that swept over me, I think some lessons can be drawn:

-Unimaginable situations reported in the Casa Pia de Lisboa

-Could and should make you think any lawyer of sense that our criminal procedure code has to be thoroughly reviewed, including the art of 356 (the actual President of the Association of Researchers said recently that does not realize what good research, investigation, since it can not be used in court).

-Highlighted the need to train prosecutors, judges and investigators in the specialty of crimes including sexual abuse involving children and adolescents

, Recalled the need for video-taping interrogations of victims of abuses

, Emphasized the need to create the specialty of Forensic Psychology

, Denounced the use of mandatory standards that are in hand to interview these victims

-Revealed the urgency to study the processes of learning and analysis of statements (already used today in the courts in Spain, Germany, Netherlands, USA, Canada, etc.) including the CBCA.

-Showed that it must be ensured that the expertise conducted by the National Institute of Forensic Medicine, the parties are entitled to genuine adversarial

These are the main lessons of this procedure Casa Pia.



Final Note:

1 - When we speak of the "Barcelona Casa Pia Process" we are talking about two processes:

a) Initial Case of Carlos Silvino he is the sole defendant, involving dozens of victims and that was about to be dismissed by then Judge Dr. Pinto de Albuquerque, now Professor at Catholic University. It's called "joined case."

b) And the process which includes my name. This case concerns mainly the seven assistants. I answer to five crimes involving three of them. Refers to the six defendants, two former defendants and other figures (many) who were never accused nor heard.

2 - Whenever I use the term "assistants" I am obviously refer to the alleged victims.

3 - At this time, for legal reasons we can not put on the site the facsimile of the whole process. This is possible only after the sentencing. And we will do it as promised, taking precautions not to disclose the identity of victims and other legal constraints.


Last edited by maria on Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:09 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Casa Pia convictions.

Post by Catkins on Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:01 pm

So much of it brings memories of how the McCanns were treated in the Press.

This part Maria......Does he mean that he was accused of five offences or he is admitting to five?

"b) And the process which includes my name. This case concerns mainly the seven assistants. I answer to five crimes involving three of them. Refers to the six defendants, two former defendants and other figures (many) who were never accused nor heard"
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Re: Casa Pia convictions.

Post by maria on Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:38 pm

No Cats, he never admitted any even loose connection to paedophilia, Casa Pia itself, these or other casapians, anything. He was sentenced for 5 crimes, but the reasons why he was found guilty were not read, so he/we still do not know the real foundation of this conviction.

When he says 'I answer for...' he really means 'I stand accused of...' or similar
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Re: Casa Pia convictions.

Post by Catkins on Tue Sep 07, 2010 11:56 pm

Ah...thankyou for explaining Maria....
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