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Portuguese Police Lowest of the Low?

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Portuguese Police Lowest of the Low?

Post by Rosie on Thu Jul 03, 2008 11:43 am

It has been reported that the McCann family are on holiday with the twins, if this is true, the recent leaks have great significant timing!

Kate and Gerry would have had to report to the PJ that they were going away on holiday, so I believe that these leaks, leaked by the PJ were done solely to disrupt their holiday and spoil it for them and especially for the twins.

If it was ever possible that this scum of a police force could actually slip any lower in my estimation, they have just managed it, how abhorrent this dreadful narcissistic police force actually is.

This making the McCann's arguidos was never about finding Madeleine or discovering what happened to her, it was all about saving face for this totally inept, insensitive, uncaring amoral police force.

A truly terrible, spiteful nasty morally bankrupt Portuguese Judiciaria (PJ)
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Re: Portuguese Police Lowest of the Low?

Post by Guest on Thu Jul 03, 2008 5:39 pm

I just put a post up elswhere about how dignified the family have been with all these leaks. The news takes me up and down. How must it be for them. Now to find that the leaks came while they are on holiday makes me think that the PJ have the motto 'You can run but you cant hide'. I fear that they will not lift the arguido status out of spite also.

It's like the PJ have come to the conclusion that the McCanns did something sinister to Madeleine.....But, they cant prove it so instead of believing the conclusion that their own lack of evidance proves ie they didn't do anything sinister they will cling on to that theory and act like bad losers who wont give back the ball when a goal is scored against them.

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Spite

Post by Guest on Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:17 pm

I totally agree, Rosie and Modnrodder,that saving face,has been everything here.
They were unable to produce the facts and evidence, but that did not stop this Portugese Police force, behaving like that of a third world country. They tried to fit any evidence around the suspects.They then tried and are still trying to destroy the Mccann's character, by lies about forensic evidence from a dead person,being found in the room and ridiculous theories about how the family hid madeleine's body, all in full view of world media.
Come on then, Fatgonc, bring it on. I dare you to stand up and say that the Mccanns killed their daughter.I believe that you will be going down for a long time.
Well.our press, will have no mercy once the legal green light is given.
Portugal, you have seen nothing yet.
Tws posters were lamenting the lack of investigative journalists working on this case.Do not believe it and once they are free to speak, like the Mccanns will be, it will rock Portugal.
Their tourist industry will be a distant memory.
The world does not approve of a country that tries to fit suspects up.
As for the c...p about arguidos not meaning "suspects ", as we know it, it is quite apparent what the Portugese system means.Hang your head Portugal.
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PJ

Post by Shingle on Sun Jul 06, 2008 12:34 am

I am of the opinion that the PJ made up their minds in the first few hours, that a murder charge laid on the parents, would be best for Portugal and best for it's economy.

The tourist industry is worth around 8 billion Euros a year to Portugal, so they didn't want the sort of exposure that a case like this would bring.

Many people have been shocked to find that they have no data base on paedophiles, and just how lax the abuse against children laws are. It would not have been seen as ideal that tourists, would think that paedophiles and abductors were at work in Portugal.

Far better to let the world think that Portugal is a haven and this was an isolated case that was committed by the parents. All they had to do was fit the evidence around the theory and apply a little of their usual interrogation methods to the parents and job done.

Unfortunately for the PJ, the family got off to a roaring start to highlight the case and with the world suddenly looking in, they were unable to employ their usual methods of extracting a confession, and having no experience with dealing with abductions, they were unable to find evidence that would lead to the truth.

The only way out was for them to start a smear campaign against Kate and Gerry that would ensure that the world really did think the parents were to blame.

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Re: Portuguese Police Lowest of the Low?

Post by vee8 on Sun Jul 06, 2008 3:03 am

It is also worth remembering that untill about five years ago, child porn was still legal in Portugal. I hesitate to say it, but old habits die hard.
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I agree

Post by Rosie on Tue Jul 08, 2008 5:00 am

With your comments Melbel, Modenrocker and Shingle, if we can all see it, so must all other logical thinking people.

I believe pretty soon Portugal is going to be rocked by another scandal bigger than their Casa Pia scandal, only this time they will not be able hide it as they have done with Casa Pia and they will not be able to get the politicians, doctors, local dignatries, police and celebrities off!

It does not surprise me to hear they had such a lax attitude towards child porn. They have this Casa Pia trial going on, it is a trial that is definitely in the interest of the public, yet Portugal has held it behind closed doors! no one knows what the hell is going on!

How can a country that is a member of the EU be allowed to behave like this? It makes a mockery out of it, well it is a mockery anyway, the EU is full of corruption too!

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hiya rosie

Post by Guest on Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:30 pm

good point how can portugal they be any part of the eu they are a disgrace to society

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Re: Portuguese Police Lowest of the Low?

Post by maria on Wed Aug 06, 2008 1:13 am

Rosiepops wrote:It has been reported that the McCann family are on holiday with the twins, if this is true, the recent leaks have great significant timing!

Kate and Gerry would have had to report to the PJ that they were going away on holiday, so I believe that these leaks, leaked by the PJ were done solely to disrupt their holiday and spoil it for them and especially for the twins.

If it was ever possible that this scum of a police force could actually slip any lower in my estimation, they have just managed it, how abhorrent this dreadful narcissistic police force actually is.

This making the McCann's arguidos was never about finding Madeleine or discovering what happened to her, it was all about saving face for this totally inept, insensitive, uncaring amoral police force.

A truly terrible, spiteful nasty morally bankrupt Portuguese Judiciaria (PJ)

It doesn't matter anymore but only now have I found this thread.

I don't know which news you are refering to, but being arguidos with no bail, the McCanns should inform the police whenever they intend to be away from their residence for more than 5 days in a row. Living in the UK I would expect that this information could be passed to their local police and it should be it, but I may be wrong, and they should tell PJ directly (through their lawyers).

Now, 'making the McCann's arguidos was never about finding Madeleine or discovering what happened to her,' not even 'was all about saving face for this totally inept, insensitive, uncaring amoral police force'. It was nothing more than a hooligan attitude to 'frighten' the parents in the vague hope that they confessed something they didn't do and try to convince some dumb prosecutor and/or court into charge and sentence them. The PJ team in charge of this investigation is indeed inept and amoral, so they don't even know they have a face, let alone the 'need' of saving it.
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Re: Portuguese Police Lowest of the Low?

Post by honestbroker on Wed Aug 13, 2008 7:34 pm

I have to confess, I read this thread with some dismay and I think it's important to bring a sense of balance and perspective to the subject.

Police forces of every country have their share of outstanding or rotten officers -- and also incidents that reflect credit or shame on the whole force of that country. I'll give you one from Britain that reflects extreme shame on our force -- the shooting dead of an innocent Brazilain man, Jean Charles de Menezes, at Stockwell Tube Station. For me, what was worst about that whole sorry episode is that the woman who presided over it, Cresida Dick, was promoted, even before the enquiry into the incident was complete.

Portugual has a much smaller population than Britain (just 10.5 million people) and far fewer crimes of the type of which Madeleine has been victim. Therefore, they will not be as practised at investigating such a crime as (say) Britain's police force. The learning curve is a kind of seat-of-the-pants experience on the hoof as it happens, and the approach is unlikely to be as thorough or professional as it might be. So it was to Portugal's credit that they accepted outside help -- perhaps less to their credit that they delayed too long. Where individual officers go, while I, like the majority here, I think, have no time for Amoral, I warm more to Rebello. Certainly, the stream of leaks, so much a feature of Amaral's tenure during his time in charge, dwindled markedly upon Rebello taking charge. I believe Rebello was handed a poisoned challice of a case by Amaral he tried his level best to reserruct, but without success. No reflection of discredit on him for that, and one is left wondering what the whole outcome might have been had he had charge of the case from the beginning.

Even in the debacle of the Cipriano case (again beset by problems of rarity of the type of crime and lack of practice at investigating them, as in the investigation into Madeleine's disappearance -- and the common denominator of Amaral) I see cause for something that gives me hope -- the fact that a very serious allegation has been taken seriously and investigated. That suggests a separation of powers between the judiciary and the police force, with the judiciary holding the whip-hand -- precisely as it should be, and meaning that the police force is accountable for its actions. That, again, reflects credit on the Portuguese way of doing things.

In conclusion, I'm unsure that it's strictly fair to take the investigation into Madeleine's disappearance as an indicator of Portuguese policing as a whole.

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Post by dianeh on Thu Aug 14, 2008 9:29 am

It may be that we have been a little harsh on the PJ overall, as it has been said on here many times that the likes of Amaral are a poor public image for the other hard working honest coppers.

I like you think that Rebelo has done all he could to resurrect the Madeleine case, and I also think part of his job was to find a way out of the mess, and hand over the information for further investigation without further damaging the PJ's reputation. I would have preferred that he handed the files over to another police force but I do respect that many very damaging things have been left in the files, and this shows his even handedness and honesty.

The thing is though, that there it is very difficult to make complaints against the PJ by anyone with a grievance. There is no independent corruption commission, no whistleblower protection. If you make a complaint, it is investigated by the PJ. Even in countries where the police do this themselves, it is usually an independent division answerable directly to the most senior person, or even directly to the minister.

Additionally, even after the mess of the Cipriano case, and the subsequent allegations, Amaral was allowed to be the lead investigator in another missing child case, and we now see the results of that.

Yes, every country has its own problems, but it is how we deal with them that is the defining factor. Here in Aust, we have a separate organisation in each state to deal with all corruption in govt, including the police. It doenst stop it, we still have corruption, but it is found, and dealt with in the public arena. We have a current case in Victoria where a very senior policeman (very very senior, in head of a department) and two of his underlings are currently facing charges for supplying information to an underworld figure who was a suspect in a murder case. It is taken extremely seriously, and they have all been suspended, and in fact were suspended before charges were laid, as the investigation was undertaken. That is how serious it is. They are not allowed on other investigations, nor can they influence other officers. Etc etc.

I know I speak for everyone here, when I say that the regular hardworking officer on the PJ and the local police force as well, as not the target of this forum. It is Amaral, and those above him who allowed him to continue working, and compound the tragedy of Madeleine's abduction by persecuting her family.
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Re: Portuguese Police Lowest of the Low?

Post by honestbroker on Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:07 pm

dianeh wrote:It may be that we have been a little harsh on the PJ overall, as it has been said on here many times that the likes of Amaral are a poor public image for the other hard working honest coppers.

I like you think that Rebelo has done all he could to resurrect the Madeleine case, and I also think part of his job was to find a way out of the mess, and hand over the information for further investigation without further damaging the PJ's reputation. I would have preferred that he handed the files over to another police force but I do respect that many very damaging things have been left in the files, and this shows his even handedness and honesty.

The thing is though, that there it is very difficult to make complaints against the PJ by anyone with a grievance. There is no independent corruption commission, no whistleblower protection. If you make a complaint, it is investigated by the PJ. Even in countries where the police do this themselves, it is usually an independent division answerable directly to the most senior person, or even directly to the minister.

Additionally, even after the mess of the Cipriano case, and the subsequent allegations, Amaral was allowed to be the lead investigator in another missing child case, and we now see the results of that.

Yes, every country has its own problems, but it is how we deal with them that is the defining factor. Here in Aust, we have a separate organisation in each state to deal with all corruption in govt, including the police. It doenst stop it, we still have corruption, but it is found, and dealt with in the public arena. We have a current case in Victoria where a very senior policeman (very very senior, in head of a department) and two of his underlings are currently facing charges for supplying information to an underworld figure who was a suspect in a murder case. It is taken extremely seriously, and they have all been suspended, and in fact were suspended before charges were laid, as the investigation was undertaken. That is how serious it is. They are not allowed on other investigations, nor can they influence other officers. Etc etc.

I know I speak for everyone here, when I say that the regular hardworking officer on the PJ and the local police force as well, as not the target of this forum. It is Amaral, and those above him who allowed him to continue working, and compound the tragedy of Madeleine's abduction by persecuting her family.

Excellent post, Diane. Wouldn't want to qaurrel with a single word of that.

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Re: Portuguese Police Lowest of the Low?

Post by Rosie on Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:33 am

The thing is when you have a situation that has developed like this one, the whole department will get tarred with the same brush.

I am not saying that Rebelo is corrupt, I am not saying that because I do not think it. What I do think however, is that he procrastinated and he did not have to do this, he could have lifted the McCann's arguido status months ago, I am sorry, but I cannot forget that and this is especially proven in light of the reports now coming from the police files about Goncalo Amaral and the report from the FSS.

If Paulo Rebelo did not know it at first, then he received that message loud and clear when he came over to the UK to question some of the tapas group. I believe this is most likely why he cut short his visit, apologised for the leaks emanating from *his* department and returned home to Portugal.

He could have ended it then, he didn't, he dragged it on for another couple of months. He refused to speak to the parents despite Kate McCann writing him that heartbreaking letter. He must have received this letter when he knew very well that these parents were innocent, that there was no evidence against them and they had been made arguidos for nothing and knowing the pain and despair they must have been living with 24/7, he was the only one that could have done something to relieve a little of their anguish and he didn't. Apparently, he did not even bother to reply to her personally, or give her an update about what was being done to find her beloved child and that is as low as it is despicable.

That to me suggests the man is shallow, insensitive and actually as ineffectual as a detective as his colleague Goncalo Amaral was.

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Portuguese Police....

Post by calcite51 on Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:21 am

Diane, in all honesty I agree with MOST of what you said. However, I am really struggling with Rebelo - yes, he was better than Amaral but I struggle with the fact that he was in charge and almost immediately claimed there was no evidence against Madeleine's parents and still Kate and Gerry were arguidos for how long? They could have had the information to the files a lot sooner. It was obviously a hot potato and very difficult for the PJ's (normally I would say government - but unfortunately, the Government of Portugal or the department that handles the PJ's didn't care enough to make any comment or at least carry out an investigation.
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Re: Portuguese Police Lowest of the Low?

Post by clairesy on Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:46 am

calcite51 wrote:Diane, in all honesty I agree with MOST of what you said. However, I am really struggling with Rebelo - yes, he was better than Amaral but I struggle with the fact that he was in charge and almost immediately claimed there was no evidence against Madeleine's parents and still Kate and Gerry were arguidos for how long? They could have had the information to the files a lot sooner. It was obviously a hot potato and very difficult for the PJ's (normally I would say government - but unfortunately, the Government of Portugal or the department that handles the PJ's didn't care enough to make any comment or at least carry out an investigation.

Exactly calcite.the judge told them to STOP investigating the mccanns but the pj carried on for 7 months!!! 7 WHOLE MONTHS after being told to stop they continued to try and get a case against the mccanns.
Which brings me to wonder once again if there was a more sinister reason behind their actions.
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Rebelo

Post by dianeh on Fri Aug 15, 2008 10:23 am

We will just have to disagree over Rebelo. I think that he has probably done as good a job as possible, given the mess he was left with, and remember that he works for the PJ, so part of his job was to try to get them out of this. And do not underestimate the importance of providing all the available evidence to the McCanns to continue searching. Rebelo did this, he insisted that all of the notes on bits of paper and on the back of cigarette boxes, were put into the computer. He even retained the evidence that does more to incriminate Gonc, than any other person.

I have been thinking about why he never answered Kate. It may be considered inappropriate. The PJ may never have seen anything like it before. I also think that Rebelo has remained at a proper distance from the McCanns, and this ensures he has been impartial, and his judgement on the case will not be questioned. In other words, he has provided everything necessary to get the arguido status lifted, and pass the info on where it may do some good.

Can you imagine the outcry in Portugal, if Rebelo had come in and after a couple of months, had the arguido status lifted. This may have been even more damaging to the McCanns, as all of Portugal had been fed a series of lies over many months to show the McCanns guilty. I wish that it had been sooner, it was the extension of the secrecy order that I most disagree with, but perhaps that was also necessary.

So lets agree to disagree on Rebelo. We will never know the truth over why the PJ did what they did, but I think the fact that Rebelo still works for them and Gonc is facing charges in court (albeit on an unrelated case), says a lot, about what went wrong with the search for Madeleine.
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Rebelo

Post by calcite51 on Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:31 pm

You're right - we'll probably never know the whole behind the scene stuff - unless of course, he takes a page out of the other PJ's book and writes a book (and that my friend, as we know has been done before) but I somehow I don't think Rebelo will. I think he has too much class and I do think he was placed in a hard position between a stone and a rock.
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Re: Portuguese Police Lowest of the Low?

Post by maria on Fri Aug 15, 2008 8:00 pm

dianeh wrote:We will just have to disagree over Rebelo. I think that he has probably done as good a job as possible, given the mess he was left with, and remember that he works for the PJ, so part of his job was to try to get them out of this. And do not underestimate the importance of providing all the available evidence to the McCanns to continue searching. Rebelo did this, he insisted that all of the notes on bits of paper and on the back of cigarette boxes, were put into the computer. He even retained the evidence that does more to incriminate Gonc, than any other person.

I have been thinking about why he never answered Kate. It may be considered inappropriate. The PJ may never have seen anything like it before. I also think that Rebelo has remained at a proper distance from the McCanns, and this ensures he has been impartial, and his judgement on the case will not be questioned. In other words, he has provided everything necessary to get the arguido status lifted, and pass the info on where it may do some good.

Can you imagine the outcry in Portugal, if Rebelo had come in and after a couple of months, had the arguido status lifted. This may have been even more damaging to the McCanns, as all of Portugal had been fed a series of lies over many months to show the McCanns guilty. I wish that it had been sooner, it was the extension of the secrecy order that I most disagree with, but perhaps that was also necessary.

So lets agree to disagree on Rebelo. We will never know the truth over why the PJ did what they did, but I think the fact that Rebelo still works for them and Gonc is facing charges in court (albeit on an unrelated case), says a lot, about what went wrong with the search for Madeleine.

This is the best summary of the situation yet. Thanks Diane.
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Re: Portuguese Police Lowest of the Low?

Post by honestbroker on Sat Aug 16, 2008 12:37 am

dianeh wrote:We will just have to disagree over Rebelo. I think that he has probably done as good a job as possible, given the mess he was left with, and remember that he works for the PJ, so part of his job was to try to get them out of this. And do not underestimate the importance of providing all the available evidence to the McCanns to continue searching. Rebelo did this, he insisted that all of the notes on bits of paper and on the back of cigarette boxes, were put into the computer. He even retained the evidence that does more to incriminate Gonc, than any other person.

I have been thinking about why he never answered Kate. It may be considered inappropriate. The PJ may never have seen anything like it before. I also think that Rebelo has remained at a proper distance from the McCanns, and this ensures he has been impartial, and his judgement on the case will not be questioned. In other words, he has provided everything necessary to get the arguido status lifted, and pass the info on where it may do some good.

Can you imagine the outcry in Portugal, if Rebelo had come in and after a couple of months, had the arguido status lifted. This may have been even more damaging to the McCanns, as all of Portugal had been fed a series of lies over many months to show the McCanns guilty. I wish that it had been sooner, it was the extension of the secrecy order that I most disagree with, but perhaps that was also necessary.

So lets agree to disagree on Rebelo. We will never know the truth over why the PJ did what they did, but I think the fact that Rebelo still works for them and Gonc is facing charges in court (albeit on an unrelated case), says a lot, about what went wrong with the search for Madeleine.

Another excellent post, Diane.

But I wanted to expand on this point about the McCanns remaining arguidos.

There is a poster over on 3 arguidos (actually, there are number, but there is one in particular) who I respect and who is both Portuguese and an expert in Portuguese law. In posts his stance on the McCanns, throughout, has been neutral, but he has concerned himself particularly with the Portuguese judicial system and how the system works. It seems that arguidos, once named, must retain that status throughout the entire duration of an investigation, and the status can be lifted only once the investigation has concluded. Hence Murat was named 'arguido' well before the McCanns and the scent went cold on him a lot sooner too, I think, but he, like the McCanns, remained an arguido until the end.

I don't think that system is at all fair. But it was no part of Rebelo's brief to change it.

I also agree with your comments about why Rebelo didn't reply to Kate.

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Re: Portuguese Police Lowest of the Low?

Post by Rosie on Sat Aug 16, 2008 4:04 am

I do not agree with Rebelo not contacting Kate, this is her daughter he was investigating, no matter the situation about the arguido status or not, the McCann's should have at least had polite dialogue with the PJ, the fact that they didn't is inhumane.

As far as the arguido status goes, then Rebelo should have ended their status as soon as he knew from his own investigations they were innocent and there was absolutely no evidence to keep them arguida and arguido. Everything backed this up and the DNA evidence confirmed it, yet for another 9 long months, they were kept as suspects, just dangling and in immense pain and I think this is not only illegal, it is an abomination and this applies to Robert Murat also.

The bottom line is that they were all kept as suspects for no particular reason and there is no excusing it.

During this time of their extended suspect status, the PJ had stopped searching for Madeleine and the parents were hampered from searching for her at every which way, they were not told of vital information, not shown e-fits of the suspected abductor/s, every possible hurdle that could be thrown at this couple was in fact thrown at them and this continued AFTER Rebelo took over. Vital evidence disposed of, vital evidence contaminated and vital evidence ignored.

Forget the bloody rights of the parents of that is what you want, but for God's sake remember the rights of Madeleine, she deserved better, she certainly deserved better than Amaral and she deserved better than Paulo Rebelo too.

What about Madeleine? Where did she figure in Paulo Rebelo's damned procrastination?

At the moment the McCann's are busy scouring the files for leads that may lead them to their daughter and this is where they are concentrating and this is the correct thing to do, however, I do hope at some point that they actually sue the PJ for gross dereliction of duty and in their place I would not hesitate.

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Re: Portuguese Police Lowest of the Low?

Post by maria on Sat Aug 16, 2008 5:40 am

Rosie

As mch as I understand your feelings and wishes, after what Amaral did, Rebelo could NOT do anything else or more.

The 'justice secrecy' applies to everyone involved in any way, from the police itself to witnesses and arguidos. It prevents ANY information to be delivered to outsiders or indeed those we could call 'the defendants'. It also prevents any personal contacts between the police and the other intervening subjects. And it lasts until investigation ends and the case is shelved or charges are made. The time allowed for this has been shortened now, before the change the 'investigation' could go almost forever. Oh and this change also prevented the PJ to name arguidos, it is up to the prosecutor now to name them (this change started being applied 1 week AFTER the McCanns were hastily named - by Amaral)

The investigation lasts until the public prosecutor (magistrate) is satisfied to press charges or decides he doesn't have any/enough evidence and then orders the shelving. It is then up to him to lift the arguido status and open the files, not the police.

Rebelo had the merit of organising all the available information and misinformation in order to enable the prosecutor to shelve the case confidently.
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Re: Portuguese Police Lowest of the Low?

Post by Rosie on Sat Aug 16, 2008 9:53 am

maria wrote:Rosie

As mch as I understand your feelings and wishes, after what Amaral did, Rebelo could NOT do anything else or more.

The 'justice secrecy' applies to everyone involved in any way, from the police itself to witnesses and arguidos. It prevents ANY information to be delivered to outsiders or indeed those we could call 'the defendants'. It also prevents any personal contacts between the police and the other intervening subjects. And it lasts until investigation ends and the case is shelved or charges are made. The time allowed for this has been shortened now, before the change the 'investigation' could go almost forever. Oh and this change also prevented the PJ to name arguidos, it is up to the prosecutor now to name them (this change started being applied 1 week AFTER the McCanns were hastily named - by Amaral)

The investigation lasts until the public prosecutor (magistrate) is satisfied to press charges or decides he doesn't have any/enough evidence and then orders the shelving. It is then up to him to lift the arguido status and open the files, not the police.

Rebelo had the merit of organising all the available information and misinformation in order to enable the prosecutor to shelve the case confidently.

Hi Maria,

I do understand what you are saying and I can clearly see that Portugal's laws are not making this any easier, however, what I am trying to say is that Rebelo knew this case was not going anywhere, why did he let it continue? He should have wound it up and then presented it to the prosecutor long before he did, or are you saying this was not his job?

It seems to me that he procrastinated for 9 moths while ALL the suspects suffered and I think this is inhumane and the biggest loser is of course Madeleine. While the PJ messed around for all that time, no one was looking for this child and I think this is unforgivable.
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Post by dianeh on Sat Aug 16, 2008 6:37 pm

It is my opinion and what Maria has written, supports it, that if Rebelo had tried to force an early closure of the case, it would have been inappropriate and may in fact have delayed the case even longer. And that is the last thing that either the McCanns or the PJ wanted.

I wish that it had all been concluded quicker, and I also think that a complete disregard has been evident for Madeleine's safety, as there is no proof that she is dead, and she was clearly abducted, and the search should have continued in earnest. But I also think that Rebelo did probably the only things he could do, working with the resources that he had.

So as I said before, we just disagree about Rebelo.
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Re: Portuguese Police Lowest of the Low?

Post by Tinkerbell43 on Sat Aug 16, 2008 8:51 pm

My opinion is not dissimilar to Rosies. Rebelo was brought in as Amarels replacement and just like Amarel made certain decisions, Rebelo had the same authority to do the same. I dont know about anyone else, but I expected great things from this man.

If he had done his homework, he would have known what the results from the FSS advised. I appreciate Amarel had taken them down a blind alley, but imo Rebelo did nothing to put his stamp on this investigation.

The biggest damage to this investigation, after Amarel, was the McCanns being unfairly made Arguidos. They must have known the effect this would have had on the investigation and imo, the minute Rebelo knew this, he should have pushed for the status to be lifted. Sod public opinion, this little girl depended on people coming forward with information. I also think he would have restored some credibility to the PJ.
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Re: Portuguese Police Lowest of the Low?

Post by Royal on Sat Aug 16, 2008 10:35 pm

Tinkerbell43 wrote:My opinion is not dissimilar to Rosies. Rebelo was brought in as Amarels replacement and just like Amarel made certain decisions, Rebelo had the same authority to do the same. I dont know about anyone else, but I expected great things from this man.

If he had done his homework, he would have known what the results from the FSS advised. I appreciate Amarel had taken them down a blind alley, but imo Rebelo did nothing to put his stamp on this investigation.

The biggest damage to this investigation, after Amarel, was the McCanns being unfairly made Arguidos. They must have known the effect this would have had on the investigation and imo, the minute Rebelo knew this, he should have pushed for the status to be lifted. Sod public opinion, this little girl depended on people coming forward with information. I also think he would have restored some credibility to the PJ.
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[b][justify]
RE: LOWEST OF THE LOW.

There is little doubt the PJ badly mishandled this case from the offset, in fact I think it would be fair to describe it as "A Comedy Of Errors" except it was anything but being funny! I believe Amarel thought this was going to be a nice easy and open and shut case. After all why waste time, money and police resources trying to find a missing child when we have two suspects readilly available? So OK, just to show everyone we are taking the matter seriously we'll waste a little time doing a useless search for the child and then we'll get down to the serious business of charging the parents of a crime they haven't commited, the fact they are innocent is irellevant, case closed, 'easy peasy' and a big boost to Amarel's already inflated Ego as Portugals crime busting hero! (was he not already involved in a similar case or am I mistaken?) The fact that his subordinates had been feeding the Portuguese newspapers a pack of lies was of little importance as they were obviously guilty and that was that! Unfortunately for him things didn't quite work out as he had hoped and he was hastilly replaced with Portugals Chief of police Robelo who was going to re-assess the situation and get things sorted once and for all, at least that was the plan. Thank goodness we all sighed! The fact that Maddies parents, grandparents and other family members have been living in torment now for nearly a year, what the hell, so what, that's life!
There should be a serious inquiry into the behaviour, abillity, attitude and performance of Portugals police force and those responsible for this disgusting fiasco should be made to pay with at the very least loss of jobs and criminal proceedings if and where appropriate!
God bless and look after Maddie where ever she may be. Alroy.

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Re: Portuguese Police Lowest of the Low?

Post by Rosie on Sun Aug 17, 2008 3:32 am

Tinkerbell43 wrote:My opinion is not dissimilar to Rosies. Rebelo was brought in as Amarels replacement and just like Amarel made certain decisions, Rebelo had the same authority to do the same. I dont know about anyone else, but I expected great things from this man.

If he had done his homework, he would have known what the results from the FSS advised. I appreciate Amarel had taken them down a blind alley, but imo Rebelo did nothing to put his stamp on this investigation.

The biggest damage to this investigation, after Amarel, was the McCanns being unfairly made Arguidos. They must have known the effect this would have had on the investigation and imo, the minute Rebelo knew this, he should have pushed for the status to be lifted. Sod public opinion, this little girl depended on people coming forward with information. I also think he would have restored some credibility to the PJ.

There is little doubt the PJ badly mishandled this case from the offset, in fact I think it would be fair to describe it as "A Comedy Of Errors" except it was anything but being funny! I believe Amarel thought this was going to be a nice easy and open and shut case. After all why waste time, money and police resources trying to find a missing child when we have two suspects readilly available? So OK, just to show everyone we are taking the matter seriously we'll waste a little time doing a useless search for the child and then we'll get down to the serious business of charging the parents of a crime they haven't commited, the fact they are innocent is irellevant, case closed, 'easy peasy' and a big boost to Amarel's already inflated Ego as Portugals crime busting hero! (was he not already involved in a similar case or am I mistaken?) The fact that his subordinates had been feeding the Portuguese newspapers a pack of lies was of little importance as they were obviously guilty and that was that! Unfortunately for him things didn't quite work out as he had hoped and he was hastilly replaced with Portugals Chief of police Robelo who was going to re-assess the situation and get things sorted once and for all, at least that was the plan. Thank goodness we all sighed! The fact that Maddies parents, grandparents and other family members have been living in torment now for nearly a year, what the hell, so what, that's life!
There should be a serious inquiry into the behaviour, abillity, attitude and performance of Portugals police force and those responsible for this disgusting fiasco should be made to pay with at the very least loss of jobs and criminal proceedings if and where appropriate!
God bless and look after Maddie where ever she may be. Alroy
.

These are two sentiments I back entirely. Both have mentioned that when Paulo rebelo came in he was "the man" and I remember feeling so relieved at the time and agreed with Alsabella, that Mr Rebelo was the best man to lead this case forward. I looked at his profile and I was impressed and reassured that this nice quiet guy would root out the corruption and get on and bring this case to its best possible conclusion. Like many others I believe and trusted in this man and I am sorry to say he let us down, but most of all and most importantly and tragically he let Madeleine and her parents down. I am not saying he is a bad man, but he still presided over absurd leaks, two of them coming out when he was in the UK talking to witnesses!

It is simple he came in and he assessed the case, he must have looked at the DNA, he must have looked at the reason why the parents were made arguidos and he must have known this was wholly incorrect. This would have been clear to him immediately. What did he do for a further 9 months? Knowing what he knew about the DNA evidence and the arguido status, he never once contacted the parents, just on a formal basis. ie dear Mr and Mrs McCann, to reassure you that the Portuguese Policia Judiciaria is doing all they possibly can to assist you in the search for your daughter.

Just a couple of lines every now and then would have probably meant so much to them, to Kate, but he left them dangling and he did this knowing their innocence.

But more than this he did this *knowing* that the search for their daughter had all but ceased in June 2007 and that every hours delay and every day more was delaying the search for this child and I am sorry but to me there can never be an excuse for this.

He could have worked within the confines of Portuguese law and draw this investigation to a close a lot sooner than he did and everything else is just flim flam.

One further point, people are saying that he included all this stuff in the files and making this out to be an act of decency, I beg to differ, it is not an act of decency, it is an act of duty. It was and always will be his duty to include everything about this case (or any case) in the files. If he had deliberately withheld evidence, he could have travelled the same road that his predecessor Goncalo Amaral is now travelling. I do not think this man Rebelo would have considered doing this, not for one second. notonyournelly
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