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Window Debate

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Re: Window Debate

Post by clairesy on Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:34 pm

Impossible for the shutters to be opened or jemmied form the outside...thats what they said before.Total load of rubbish isnt it.If the journalists can manage so can someone who comes prepared.

Minxy and i have spoken about this lots.Minxy as a good theory about someone working at the ocean club allowing access...or someone with access to keys being able to enter the apartment.

A waiter jose bapistsa as come up a lot...he said the mccanns were very drunk..but that again was another lie.

i wonder if someone with keys helped this abduction to take place?

Remember when the mccann first arrived at the apartment some staff came to fix the window in question because it it wasn't closing properly?

Also malinkas mum works there as a cleaner...she had keys to the ocean club apartments and it would have been easy for him to access keys.Luis (michealas partner) also worked at the ocean club,he was the pool cleaner there.
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Re: Window Debate

Post by Cath on Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:41 pm

Those were rumours in the papers Clairesy.
Quiz night is mentioned in the Rogatories.
For instance Jane, Fiona or Rachel mentioned it. Can't remember whom.

ETA
She was recruited to give aerobic classes, however she was also
asked to carry out a Quiz (game) twice a week (Tuesdays and
Sundays) in the Ocean Club Tapas restaurant.


She remembers that last Tuesday at the end of the quiz, she was
invited to the table of nine guests who asked her to join them
for a drink.


http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/PJ/NAJOUA_CHEKAYA.htm



ETA "Remember when the mccann first arrived at the apartment some staff came
to fix the window in question because it it wasn't closing properly?"

Wasn't it the parent's bedroom?

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Re: Window Debate

Post by clairesy on Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:06 pm

Cath wrote:Those were rumours in the papers Clairesy.
Quiz night is mentioned in the Rogatories.
For instance Jane, Fiona or Rachel mentioned it. Can't remember whom.

ETA
She was recruited to give aerobic classes, however she was also
asked to carry out a Quiz (game) twice a week (Tuesdays and
Sundays) in the Ocean Club Tapas restaurant.


She remembers that last Tuesday at the end of the quiz, she was
invited to the table of nine guests who asked her to join them
for a drink.


http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/PJ/NAJOUA_CHEKAYA.htm


ETA "Remember when the mccann first arrived at the apartment some staff came
to fix the window in question because it it wasn't closing properly?"

Wasn't it the parent's bedroom?

Mr McCann also told police that workmen had come into their holiday
apartment to fix a broken window shutter in the main bedroom just two
days before she disappeared.

I take that to mean the main bedroom in question,not sure though
because it doesn't say. Does anyone know exactly which bedroom window
was fixed 2 days before Madeleine's abduction??

Thinks its best we get it right so that we can either rule in or out
any possible mistakes.Because if it is Madeleine's window then it also
questions why other finger prints were not found on the window or
shutters.
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Re: Window Debate

Post by Cath on Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:44 pm

Clairesy, perhaps it's best to start reading the files to find the statement of the men who fixed it. There's also a signed receipt for it.
I've got no time to do the searching myself again, I've done that months ago with a few other posters.

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Re: Window Debate

Post by Sabot on Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:54 pm

I also read that the cleaner opened Madeleine's bedroom window to air the room when she did the cleaning. I would presume that she closed and locked the window before she left, but we can't be sure about this.

However, it does add to the possibility that the appartment could have been accessed through the window.

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Re: Window Debate

Post by Catkins on Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:11 pm

clairesy wrote:
Cath wrote:Those were rumours in the papers Clairesy.
Quiz night is mentioned in the Rogatories.
For instance Jane, Fiona or Rachel mentioned it. Can't remember whom.

ETA
She was recruited to give aerobic classes, however she was also
asked to carry out a Quiz (game) twice a week (Tuesdays and
Sundays) in the Ocean Club Tapas restaurant.


She remembers that last Tuesday at the end of the quiz, she was
invited to the table of nine guests who asked her to join them
for a drink.


http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/PJ/NAJOUA_CHEKAYA.htm


ETA "Remember when the mccann first arrived at the apartment some staff came
to fix the window in question because it it wasn't closing properly?"

Wasn't it the parent's bedroom?

Mr McCann also told police that workmen had come into their holiday
apartment to fix a broken window shutter in the main bedroom just two
days before she disappeared.

I take that to mean the main bedroom in question,not sure though
because it doesn't say. Does anyone know exactly which bedroom window
was fixed 2 days before Madeleine's abduction??

Thinks its best we get it right so that we can either rule in or out
any possible mistakes.Because if it is Madeleine's window then it also
questions why other finger prints were not found on the window or
shutters.

I think it is the parents bedroom...........Didn't previous renters have to have the shutters seen to also...?
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Re: Window Debate

Post by Cath on Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:15 pm

Can you remember where you've read that Sabot?
The thought of that has crossed my mind on several occasions, but I couldn't find it mentioned in her statement. Don't know if there's an additional statement that I've missed reading so far.


Also, if someone accessed the apartment (spell checker keeps telling me it's one 'p' it's getting me confused) through the window, wouldn't s/he
have opened the curtains to get easier in?

BBL

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Re: Window Debate

Post by Sabot on Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:31 pm

Cath wrote:Can you remember where you've read that Sabot?
The thought of that has crossed my mind on several occasions, but I couldn't find it mentioned in her statement. Don't know if there's an additional statement that I've missed reading so far.


Also, if someone accessed the apartment (spell checker keeps telling me it's one 'p' it's getting me confused) through the window, wouldn't s/he
have opened the curtains to get easier in?

BBL

I can't remember where I read about the cleaner, Cath. I thought it was in her statement, but it could have been the statement of someone else.
At the time it seemed perfectly logical. The curtains could have been opened quite easily from the outside.

Appartment can be spelt with one P or two. One P could be the American spelling

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Re: Window Debate

Post by maria on Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:44 pm

I take that to mean the main bedroom in question,not sure though
because it doesn't say. Does anyone know exactly which bedroom window
was fixed 2 days before Madeleine's abduction??

Mário Domingos Moreira, statement already on 'our copy of dvd'. Should be the main bedroom/living room/kitchen, as it is said to be on the back, facing Tapas.
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Re: Window Debate

Post by Tinkerbell43 on Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:29 am

Hi Cath,

I dont know if this is what you are thinking of, taken from The Times on line.

"There was a latch lock on the sliding glass window, and the McCanns thought, but could not be sure, that they had locked it at the start of the holiday. They would later discover it was common for cleaners to open the shutters and windows to give the rooms an airing, so there was no way of knowing whether the window was locked that night or not and no forensic trace to indicate where and how an abductor had gone in and out. They could easily have used the front door, perhaps even had access to a key."
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Re: Window Debate

Post by Sabot on Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:40 am

You'd think that The PJ might have asked the cleaner about this.
But what's new?

What else didn't they bother to do?

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Re: Window Debate

Post by Cath on Thu Jan 21, 2010 5:31 am

Thanks Tinks & Sabot. Yes I expected to read something about it in the files, in the statement by the cleaning lady.
There's something about her in GA's book, but as that book is full of mistakes or even plain lies, I'm not sure if it's true.

She could have left the window open, but how about the shutters, even if nobody paid attention to them at the time, why couldn't they remember, visualise it afterwards? Or did they?

Someone bumped the GNR sniffer dogs thread over at pfa2.
Did they all leave by the same exit, and what exit did they use?
If they all used the main door, wouldn't that indicate someone left with Madeleine through that door? Did they pass the window?

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THE WINDOW

Post by Royal on Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:41 pm

Just to add a little more interest to the window debate, could it have been possible the abductor was perhaps wearing gloves and being a crafty criminal minded sort of guy upon entering the children's bedroom he first opened the window and shutter as a potential escape route? Then, to avoid leaving tell tale finger prints, DNA, etc, wiped the bottom half of the window clean using some piece of old cloth or perhpas his gloved hand? This guy was no mug after all and it would account for only Kates finger prints being on the window and shutter. Just a passing thought!
Alroy.

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Re: Window Debate

Post by Rosie on Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:53 pm

Alroy, we think that almost certainly the abductors wore gloves and probably wiped the window, but I still lean towards there being two abductors, it seems to fit.

The thing is that if the abductors did wipe the window, then a good forensic technician would have found that.
Maria who knows these windows and shutters very well, tells us that on the shutters there is a kind of knob either side and this is used by some to open the shutters and they can easily be opened from the outside!

Food for thought isn't it?

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Re: Window Debate

Post by Cath on Fri Jan 22, 2010 3:43 am

Is it likely they opened and closed the curtains?

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Re: Window Debate

Post by maria theresa on Fri Jan 22, 2010 4:43 am

Apart from all the excellent points you have all made, it is surely ludicrous to suggest that the McCanns would be stupid enough to think you could set up a faked abduction by opening a window...... Absolute nonsense.

But then, at every point, Amaral's suggestions are risible. I do not believe that most Portuguese police officers could possibly believe them. Garbage.

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Re: Window Debate

Post by Sabot on Fri Jan 22, 2010 5:02 am

maria theresa wrote:Apart from all the excellent points you have all made, it is surely ludicrous to suggest that the McCanns would be stupid enough to think you could set up a faked abduction by opening a window...... Absolute nonsense.

But then, at every point, Amaral's suggestions are risible. I do not believe that most Portuguese police officers could possibly believe them. Garbage.

It is always the same offenders, Maria. The same names keep on turning up, in The Cipriano Case and The McCann Case, and no doubt in several other cases.

Of course not all Portuguese Police Officers believe them, or would get involved in such things. But you can bet your bottom dollar that none of these people will be called to testify. Not that it matters, those who have testified have done a grand job for The McCanns.

Thank you so much for your reports, You can have no idea of what a relief it was to read true reporting.

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Re: Window Debate

Post by maria theresa on Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:39 am

Just reminding you that I'm only Maria Theresa, not Maria! Sorry if any confusion is caused.

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Re: Window Debate

Post by Sabot on Fri Jan 22, 2010 7:17 am

maria theresa wrote:Just reminding you that I'm only Maria Theresa, not Maria! Sorry if any confusion is caused.

Sorry. I shall pay more attention. But I expect that you all know what I mean.

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Re: Window Debate

Post by dianeh on Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:34 am

maria theresa wrote:Apart from all the excellent points you have all made, it is surely ludicrous to suggest that the McCanns would be stupid enough to think you could set up a faked abduction by opening a window...... Absolute nonsense.

But then, at every point, Amaral's suggestions are risible. I do not believe that most Portuguese police officers could possibly believe them. Garbage.

I agree that is it ridiculous that anyone would think that simply opening a window (and leaving your fingerprints) would be enough to stage a faked abduction.

The stupidity certainly is not residing on the McCann's side. It is bizarre that the police would suspect that the window was opened to fake an abduction.

Where is the motive for the McCanns to fake an abduction? There is no proof that Madeleine died in the apartment, so that is no motive and never was because they would not have staged an abduction to cover up an accident.

How have the McCanns benefited? The 'FUND' I hear the anti's cry, but the money from the fund is not going to the McCanns, it is going to pay for investigators and others to try to find Madeleine. Plus, that if the fund was the reason for faking an abduction, then that would mean the crime was thought of back in Britain.

What is the means of the faked abduction? Nothing put forward so far that has been even remotely cohesive, Amaral's theory (which one I hear you ask) just doesnt make any sense in terms of timing,logistics etc, plus there is absolutely no evidence to support it.

As I said, totally bizarre that such a theory as a faked abduction is even made public by the PJ or Amaral. It is truly making them look like a pack of amateurs or police officers with an agenda.
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Re: Window Debate

Post by maria theresa on Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:36 am

Of course. No problem! I just don't want anyone to think I'm Maria or vice versa! Not fair to Maria. I might be happy to take credit for Maria's posts (LOL!) but NOT the other way round, I'm sure!

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Re: Window Debate

Post by maria theresa on Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:40 am

I agree Dianeh.

I honestly can't believe that such stupidity can actually have reached the courts. I can't believe anyone who has read his theories or seen the documentary could possibly think they were true. You'd think they would just be laughed out of court.

Menezes said he'd not read the book. I think that's quite significant!

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Re: Window Debate

Post by Pedro Silva on Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:44 am

The only who is faked here is GA.

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Re: Window Debate

Post by Sabot on Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:01 am

Pedro Silva wrote:The only who is faked here is GA.

Yes, and he's fecked as well.

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Re: Window Debate

Post by etoile brillante on Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:34 pm

Hello, I did not read all the discussion, please excuse me. I think that maddie it is made remove(kidnap) by the door, and that the kidnapper specially(deliberately) left the fenetre opened to persuade has a removal(kidnapping) by somebody having no keys.
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Re: Window Debate

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