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SATELLITE CLUE TO MADDIE KIDNAP

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SATELLITE CLUE TO MADDIE KIDNAP

Post by christabel on Sun Oct 18, 2009 11:17 am

SATELLITE CLUE TO MADDIE KIDNAP MISSING: Madeleine McCann

Sunday October 18,2009 By James Murray

HOME Secretary Alan Johnson is prepared to ask US spy chiefs for satellite images which may show the face of Madeleine McCann’s kidnapper, following intervention by the Sunday Express. Hope of new progress came after it emerged Leicestershire Police never made a formal request to the Home Office for views of Praia da Luz on Portugal’s Algarve at the time the little girl vanished in May 2007. The quality of pictures taken by satellites in space is now so good they can reputedly identify the colour of someone’s eyes. Last night a senior source with the Portuguese police said: “We know US spy satellites regularly sweep over Portugal looking at military installations and government facilities. “So we thought they might actually have images of Praia da Luz on the day of the kidnapping and the preceding days. “We hoped spy images may have captured the kidnapper watching the apartment prior to the event or even on the day itself. Obviously, having a picture would have speeded up the apprehension of the offender.”

Google Earth view from where Madeleine was snatched

Yet more than two years after Madeleine was snatched no help has been forthcoming, despite early requests from senior Portuguese detectives. The Portuguese source explained: “This was fully discussed with Leicestershire Police and officials with the British Government. “We were confident of getting progress because of Gordon Brown’s interest in the case and this apparent special relationship between Britain and the United States. “Your ambassador to Portugal even visited our officers soon after the kidnap. “The bad news for us is that we got nowhere with this avenue of inquiry, which was both frustrating and infuriating.” For, despite all the talk, nothing appears to have been done officially with the British government and the formal requests were never made. Last night a spokesman for Mr Johnson said extensive checks within the security intelligence community had failed to discover any formal request ever having come to them through Leicestershire Police from Portugal. However, he said that if a request were now made Mr Johnson would see whether he could offer any assistance in trying to persuade the Americans to become co-operative.

The issue appears so sensitive that Prime Minister Mr Brown may have to speak directly to US President Barack Obama in order to achieve co-operation. The Sunday Express sought explanations for the extraordinary situation from the US government’s ultra- secretive National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency. The agency’s lawyers are now considering a Freedom of Information request from the Sunday Express. A spokesman for the agency said: “NGA does not provide imagery to private citizens or private companies. For reasons of national security we do not discuss specifics about what images we have or our capabilities.” Private investigators working for parents Kate and Gerry McCann, who live in Rothley, Leicestershire, have also tried to access US satellite images, but with no success.

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Re: SATELLITE CLUE TO MADDIE KIDNAP

Post by Rosie on Sun Oct 18, 2009 11:39 am

It will be very interesting to see what the Leicestershire police have to say, I would bet a pound to a penny, that they have not been asked by the Portuguese police to do this.

I hope it comes off but again I am not holding my breath, this is another old story with a slightly newer twist, in as much as the Sunday Express has made a request.

If the request is granted and they come up with something, I can think of at least 7 people in and around Praia da Luz that are going to be feeling a bit worried when they read this story.

The corruption could continue to unfold!

I have always said that PDL will give its secrets up eventually!

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Re: SATELLITE CLUE TO MADDIE KIDNAP

Post by dianeh on Sun Oct 18, 2009 2:06 pm

The quality of pictures taken by satellites in space is now so good they can reputedly identify the colour of someone’s eyes.

I think that this even goes to far for the best the US has to offer, this is after all not Star Trek we are talking about.

High resolution images are only taken over strategic spots, installations etc. Nobody is routinely taking high resolution images of tourist spots.

Here is some information about commercial satellite imaging.

From its vantage point of 425 miles in space, the 4,300-pound GeoEye-1 satellite orbits the Earth and focuses its powerful lens on the surface below, snapping electronic images that can resolve objects on the ground as small as 41 cm across (16 inches). That's approximately the size of home plate on a baseball diamond. These images are typically processed and sold to the military for mapping and to companies like Google, which makes them available to the public through its platform Google Earth. (Because of federal regulations, the publicly-available images are slightly lower resolution -- approximately 50 cm).

This comes from

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/05/090526183858.htm

dated May this year.

So unless the US military have even higher resolution there is no way that faces can be determined, or things like license plates can be visible with this technology, because the features are smaller than 41 cm.

And if the US military has such high resolution to get to the required level of detail then it is not going to be made available, or even acknowledged in the public domain. If the information is not freely available, then the resolution etc of the spy satellites will be classified. It is that simple.

So there are 2 fully unknowns here.

1. Does the US even have the capability to determine license plates or faces from orbit? (Plus the known that if it is classified, then they will never tell us_
2. If that capability exists, then were the satellites trained on PDL during the relevant period, at all? (Remember that there is no strategic benefit to targeting PDL as far as the US is concerned).

This talk of satellites is IMO an attempt to feed the conspiracy loons who believe that the British govt has somehow stopped the Portuguese from solving the case.

Surely the Sunday Express could see this by doing a little bit of googling and checking out the commercially available satellite image resolutions, just as I have done. It isnt rocket science.
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Re: SATELLITE CLUE TO MADDIE KIDNAP

Post by rosemary on Sun Oct 18, 2009 6:23 pm

Dianeh I agree. And we mustn´t overlook the fact that it was dusk, growing dark quickly, when the event took place.

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Re: SATELLITE CLUE TO MADDIE KIDNAP

Post by vee8 on Sun Oct 18, 2009 7:27 pm

I thought this had been covered before? The chances of a spy satelite being exactly over PDL at the exact time, and taking pictures of a tourist spot are so remote as to be not calculable. Sorry, but people are clutching at straws here, and that's apart from the fact that the U.S. government would never even acknoledge the fact they have spy satelites that powerful, (They do, but that's a badly kept secret anyway) or give information about where and who they were watching at any one time. Even if, by a miracle, they HAD the required photo's, I seriously doubt they would ever even admit it, never mind hand them over, no matter if GB went down on bended knee to Barak Obama, the life of one small child is sadly, to American national security, just not worth it. Sorry to be a wet blanket, but this is just a newspaper selling story.
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Re: SATELLITE CLUE TO MADDIE KIDNAP

Post by Tinkerbell43 on Sun Oct 18, 2009 9:01 pm

Interesting to see they refer to a Kidnapper.

“So we thought they might actually have images of Praia da Luz on the day of the kidnapping and the preceding days. “We hoped spy images may have captured the kidnapper watching the apartment prior to the event or even on the day itself. Obviously, having a picture would have speeded up the apprehension of the offender.”

Obviously releasing the "E-fits" available in the files would have also speeded up the apprehension of the offender!
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Re: SATELLITE CLUE TO MADDIE KIDNAP

Post by Rosie on Sun Oct 18, 2009 9:27 pm

I agree with everything being said here and also if the McCanns investigators have asked for these images and been turned down, what makes the Express think they are going to be successful?

For all we know, the images have been seen and reveal nothing, as Diane and Vee has said, the chances of a satellite being trained on little old sleepy PDL at that exact time is virtually non existent.

My honest opinion is, that the Portuguese police are again attempting to use this satellite imaging story as a cover up for their incompetence and corruption, look at it for exactly what it is, another chance to pass the buck and to try and get at the McCanns, by means of blaming all of this on them and the British government.

Anyone who thinks that Gordon Brown would not do this in a heartbeat is potty, Brown is trailing in the polls, if he was seen to take on the US and win getting this imaging and thus producing vital clues as to what happened to Madeleine and her whereabouts today, do people honestly think he would not do this in a flash? Think of the Kudos he would earn.

No this is another far fetched story which has been done hundreds of times before.

Just the Portuguese police trying to pass the corruption buck again and maybe another underhand attempt by Goncalo Amaral to get himself off of the hook, where he is now stuck fast. Tick Tock Amaral...Tick Tock!

Well said Tinks, absolutely true! How nice to see that colossal "Freudian Slip" by the Portuguese police there in their talk of "Kidnapping and kidnappers", great of them to officially admit it..........at last!

It would be good if the Sunday Express were to concentrate on the real story that is currently going on in Portugal, if they really do want to help find Madeleine, they 'know' where to start their enquiries!

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SATELITE IMMAGERY!

Post by Royal on Mon Oct 19, 2009 1:16 am

Hi there, why be pessimistic about this, you never know something spectacular may turn up, and if not I guess It's back to detective work and the psychics again Rosie! Anyway, we already have a good description of the 'man walking with a child' so how come nothing has come of that, surely somebody in the world knows of someone who fits the description, and if that man just happened to have been in Portugal or even in the PDL area at the time? This man was real living person and I believe the description is fairly accurate, and what's more I suspect he is of Portuguese or Spanish origin. He is hiding out somewhere so find find him and we find Madeleine! Who ever he is he's probably changed his appearance by removing the 'moustach' and altering his hair style, perhaps even dyed it, but he can't change his features except by surgery so who is he and where is he?
Alroy.

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Re: SATELLITE CLUE TO MADDIE KIDNAP

Post by Cath on Mon Oct 19, 2009 1:44 am

I don't know if there's a satellite that's able to read license plates, nor do I know if the US had a satellite watching the Algarve, or PdL.
So I'll wait and see what happens next.

GA claimed he'd asked for the satellite's pictures, didn't he?
Can't remember if he's said they told him they didn't have any or if he's said his request was turned down.
Yet this part (IF true) is worrying me a bit :

Last night a spokesman for Mr Johnson said extensive checks within the
security intelligence community had failed to discover any formal
request
ever having come to them through Leicestershire Police from
Portugal
. However, he said that if a request were now made Mr Johnson
would see whether he could offer any assistance in trying to persuade
the Americans to become co-operative.

1. Because this looks like there was no such request (GA lied about it).
2. Portugal has to make a request, in order to get mr Johnson's assistance in persuading the Americans. Is this just a Politicians propaganda? Why would the Portuguese Government/PJ ask for it now they've shelved the case?

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Re: SATELLITE CLUE TO MADDIE KIDNAP

Post by Rosie on Mon Oct 19, 2009 2:56 am

Of course if they could get hold of this and it showed something it would be of benefit, but how likely is this after all of this time?

I do not believe that Goncalo Amaral requested this, I think this is more of his lies, that is the trouble when someone has been caught out lying and been found guilty of committing perjury, no one believes a word he says anymore.
I think he has only mentioned this because Amaral wanted to put the blame on the British government, Amaral wants to do anything that will divert attention away from him and what he has been up to and his total incompetence.

Hopefully, if this is the case then it will now come out that the British government and the Leicestershire police never received any such request from the Portuguese police.

I am not particularly impressed with Leicestershire police either, they do not look to have done anything in particular to help anyone, least of all Madeleine, but what do you expect from a police force that allows a mother and daughter to be hounded until they felt they had no other option other than to commit suicide?

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Re: SATELLITE CLUE TO MADDIE KIDNAP

Post by Catkins on Mon Oct 19, 2009 4:47 am

Wasn't there talk of Jarod (think thats what its called...specialist satellite spy thingy)in the early months ?
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Re: SATELLITE CLUE TO MADDIE KIDNAP

Post by jean on Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:04 am

I'm sorry but I disagree. I feel that there is a chance that this information may be obtainable from the US Government as I believe that there are satellites that are capable of doing exactly what has been suggested. They are not saying that the actual kidnapping may have been filmed, but it may show evidence of events leading up to 3 May, and there are these types of satellites flying around all over, watching and listening to our every move, whether we like it or not. Surely if there is just the slightest chance that something may have been seen it is worth pursuing? You never know the Express newspapers may come up trumps, they would certainly have a scoop. AND who would have thought that one little British girl would have had as much publicity as she has - she is exceptionally important, not only to her parents but to the whole caring world. Everyone wants her to be reunited with her family (except for a few bad eggs of course).

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Re: SATELLITE CLUE TO MADDIE KIDNAP

Post by Pedro Silva on Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:53 pm

At the early stages of the investigation, I sent that idea to PJ, then to MJ3. I agree with Jean.

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Re: SATELLITE CLUE TO MADDIE KIDNAP

Post by dianeh on Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:03 pm

Pedro

Did you hear back anything from either of them, some acknowledgement of your idea? Or just complete silence?
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Re: SATELLITE CLUE TO MADDIE KIDNAP

Post by Pedro Silva on Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:50 pm

As I recalled, PJ had not replied to me, but M3 did replied to me. I also remember that, a few days later, I saw at both Portuguese and British newspapers, the intention of PJ to request that. I don´t remember who the newspapers were at that time, and if that was true or only speculation from the press.

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Re: SATELLITE CLUE TO MADDIE KIDNAP

Post by Rosie on Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:00 pm

I'm not saying that they should not be looked at, I am saying that it is highly unlikely that the US would have had spy satellites trained on Praia da Luz, I refuse to get my hopes up again. This will probably be another bit of sentationalist reporting in a newspaper of which we will hear no more of, we have all lost count of how many times this has happened now.

I do not believe that Amaral or later Paulo Rebelo, would have requested this information from the Leicestershire police, I think this is untrue, for two reasons ~ 1) I do not believe anything Amaral or Rebelo say 2) I do not believe that Amaral would have been allowed to request this, I think he would have had to approach his political master, who was Alipio Ribeiro at the time and it would have been Mr Ribeiro who then contacted the British government, and this is why I think that perhaps something about this story doesn't add up, I hope I am proved wrong and that the images are looked at and something is discovered, (with all my heart I do) but I am not holding my breath while waiting for any news of it.
I honestly think this is another red herring put in the mix by Goncalo Amaral to try and deflect attention away from himself and lay the blame at the British government's door, this has been the pattern of Goncalo Amaral and Paulo Rebelo all along.

Another thing that concerns me, we have a little girl gone missing, she is hugely high profile across the world, at the time George W Bush was trailing badly in the polls and was very unpopular in the US and the rest if the world, if there was a chance that he could earn some Brownie points for himself by helping to uncover evidence, then I believe he would not have hesitated to do it, the same goes for Brown. It is inconceivable to think that our two leaders (then) and our respective secret services, knowing they had spy satellites trained on PDL and have maybe caught this on camera, have not passed on this information. The secret services were also taking a hell of a drubbing in the press at the time for other unrelated events, so this would have earned them huge goodwill from the general public too.

Sorry tio be a wet blanket, I hope that I am wrong, but I just do not see it.

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Re: SATELLITE CLUE TO MADDIE KIDNAP

Post by maria on Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:27 pm

20 October 2009 - 00h30

Maddie: Justification given by entities contacted by PJ
Satellite diverted the night of the crime
Satellite imagery of Praia da Luz on the night of 3 May 2007 were the first concerns of PJ when the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. At the time, however, U.S. authorities reported that didn't exist because the satellites were diverted that night.


'It was said that the two geostationary satellites [which might have pictures of the PdL] were facing the Gulf of Cadiz, where there was a naval exercise, "explains to CM Gonçalo Amaral, former coordinator of the PJ who led the research case.

'It was a very serious possibility in order to know who the kidnapper was and more, "said Goncalo Amaral, who said the Judiciary wanted images of the moment of disappearance, but also' the hours and even days before it."

Given the information that the satellites had been misappropriated, the PJ decided not to proceed with any formal application. 'I doubt anyone else has attempted to obtain these images, "says the former coordinator of the Judicial Police, questioning why" the McCanns, said that powerful, never tried to get the images to solve the mysterious disappearance'.

Contacted yesterday by the CM, Clarence Mitchell, spokesman for Kate and Gerry McCann, explained that "the images that existed two years ago were useless'. It states that 'if there were pictures, the kidnapper would have been caught long ago "and denies any recent request from the British authorities to obtain the records.

'As far as we know, is not being made any diplomatic effort in this direction', assured the spokesman for the McCanns.

The British authorities denied yesterday that they were to make any diplomatic contact to get the records of U.S. satellites.

DETAILS

MURAT PROCESSING

Robert Murat has led to court for defamation, the witness in the Maddie pointed out that deviant sexual acts.

RESEARCH

Clarence says he hired private detectives continue to follow 'strong leads'.

João Mira Godinho / Paulo Marcelino

http://www.correiomanha.pt/Noticia.aspx?channelid=00000010-0000-0000-0000-000000000010&contentid=B615C650-416D-4191-BBBF-98E5FCF99A0A
***************************************************
I like this!!!

So, PJ knew about the satellites, concluded their images were useless and decided not to request these images. However, Amaral does not understand why the McCanns , said to be that powerful, never asked for them. Now, who was investigating Madeleine disappearance then, PJ or her family? I would say NEITHER, Amaral was. Or was he?

And being 'that' powerful, would it make the images useful? I never heard, not even from Amaral, that they were magicians...
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Re: SATELLITE CLUE TO MADDIE KIDNAP

Post by maria on Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:44 pm

I just was informed that I was the 1.000.000th visitor to CM site and I could win an Audi A5, just need to give my full details... Shall I? I can even choose the colour! WOW! And just for my participation I'll win 7 nights stay in a hotel, for two (they don't say if they provide the other one..)

I wonder, could Amaral have won is Jag in some 'celebration' like this one, 24hours or TVI...???
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