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Portugal and Corruption How Deep Does It Go

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Portugal and Corruption How Deep Does It Go

Post by christabel on Sat Oct 17, 2009 11:55 pm

When is the government in Portugal going to wake up to the amount of corruption,bullying,threats and god knows what else going on in their country?
Or do they know all about it and doing nothing, letting these thugs do whatever they want to whoever they want.
Who's pockets are being lined? It is time something was done about this.
This poor woman knows her husband was murdered, but it seems nothing is being done about it.
Has the Portuguese Attorney General got no guts?


Vila Real: GNR attention to Sunday's elections in the town of Ermelo

PS accuses of planning the death of husband

Nearly a week after Maximino Clemente, husband of the candidate of the PSD to the parish council in Ermelo, was shot dead by the opponent António Cunha, the climate of fear and tension remains well lit in the village. The charges against the former candidate of the PS and not continue the death of ex-GNR eased their nerves.



Gloria Ng, wife of the victim, has no doubt that the death of Maximinus was planned by members of the PS. "The delegates of the PS never actually turned up at the ballot box, not after my husband was killed. That says it all. They all planned to kill my husband, "said the CM Gloria Nunes.
The applicant states that since Sunday the members of the list of António Cunha are not seen in the village. "Some members of his list disappeared. The houses are closed as if he lived there no one in employment appear, "said Gloria.
Ermelo life goes on. The GNR is preparing Sunday's elections, which will take place under the watchful eye of police. However, the strengthening of the military in the area will only happen if the chairman of the polling requests, which so far has not succeeded.
The two polling stations will be placed in Fervença and home of the People in Ermelo. However, because of what happened on Sunday at both locations there were several difficulties in getting delegates to attend the vote. Initially one of the tables was also to be placed on the parish council, but the GNR finally find that it is a small space and was prone to hidden danger.
In elections Sunday, Gloria is now the only candidate. Even so, the woman explains that this is a win win long ago. "Even that was not the only candidate won. The people were always on my side, "he said.
DETAILS
Homicidal PREVENTIVE
After hearing Wednesday at the Vila Real, António Cunha was awaiting trial in custody. The murderer was sent to jail in Vila Real.
PS RETREAT LIST
After Antonio Maximino killing shot, the Socialist Party withdrew the list to the president of the parish council of Ermelo, making it impossible for the murderer to continue to compete.
FEAR IN ERMELO
The climate in Ermelo is fear. Several popular fear that family and friends of Antonio to try to avenge the man was killed.
JURAS FOR REVENGE
In the village, the climate is far from calm. On the day of the funeral the children of Maximino swore revenge on the man who killed their father.
Ana Isabel Fonseca

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Re: Portugal and Corruption How Deep Does It Go

Post by Catkins on Sun Oct 18, 2009 12:00 am

Good god its like something from the dark ages.........
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Re: Portugal and Corruption How Deep Does It Go

Post by christabel on Sun Oct 18, 2009 12:12 am

Catkins wrote:Good god its like something from the dark ages.........

Cat,

This is nothing compared to what is happening in Portugal on a daily basis. Until someone in authority grows some b***s and stands up to these people it will carry on. There's a lot more coming out now about corruption, and hopefully something is going to be done before other innocent people get shot. People, who know are at last speaking out.

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Re: Portugal and Corruption How Deep Does It Go

Post by dianeh on Sun Oct 18, 2009 8:33 am

It is time that the Portuguese introduced a commision against corruption, one with wide ranging powers, that listens to whistleblowers, and they need to protect these judges with everything possible. That is how we dealt with corruption in Australia. A number of years ago, NSW was very corrupt, (and its effects still linger on) but they introduced tough actions to get rid of it. The same things has been enacted in most states (all I think), and it works. Just recently Victoria had some very senior police officers up on charges.

Take a look at Italy, and what they have done to combat the mafia. That is what Portugal needs to do. They need to clean up their police, their judicial system and their political system, and rid the orgranised crime element from it.

A good place to start would be to investigate a few coppers that have failed miserably at finding lost children, and who have been embroiled in allegations of perjury and torture. The cases need to be investigated from top to bottom to find the failings, as well as the illegal dealings. Part of the problem with police corruption is process, that is there is not enough checks and balances within the system that make it difficult to be corrupt. First and foremost is this confession rubbish. Any confession should be backed with full and proven forensics, and witnesses. That would go along way to preventing cock ups like the Cipriano case.

The civil liberties group, law reform, police reform groups should all be combining and lobbying the govt to implement reform. It is long overdue, and much needed. The people of Portugal deserve a govt and a judicial system that serves them, not the other way around.
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Re: Portugal and Corruption How Deep Does It Go

Post by maria on Sun Oct 18, 2009 7:08 pm

I would respectfully ask that politics is left out of our forum. The piece of news that gave 'birth' to this thread is falacious, incomplete and so, false, at least partially.

The 'fear' felt at Ermelo and indeed all the country is being propalet by the social democratic party and right wing christian democratic party, it is referred as 'democratic asphixy' and this after their leader defended that 'the democracy should be suspended for six months in order to put order in the house and then we would see' (verbatim). The same lady stated that the measures of the government to increase public investment so that the crisis could at least be alleviated only served to give 'employement to ucranians and capeverdians (from Cabo Verde, an former portuguese colony). This, in a poor country of emmigrants...

The christian democrats defend the end of state subsidies to the poor with a dry 'they do not want to work' when we have currently a 9,4 uenployment rate. Also, they defend the increase of number of police forces, to combat crime, not their preparation, support, and 'cleaning'.

Actually this 'cleaning' is being started by GNR, this week 35 agents were expelled, some are in jail. PSP is set to follow suite. And PJ... didn't hear anything about it.

But coming back to the said event in Ermelo. António Cunha has been the president of the local authority back in the 80s and 90s. At that time, family and friends of Maximino Clemente started harrassing him and filing process (most of them never came to court and the other came to nothing) about the 'baldios', empty land belonging to the local authority and used by the community to feed their herds or other uses, like picking up wood for the fire, etc. The personal problems started then, but never reached any death threats or the like. This is VERY common is small communities and therefore the contenders are parted and everybody goes in peace. Then Maximino or his wife won the elections, probably undid whatever Cunha did, and the bad relations went on. Contrary of what is said, it was António Cunha the favourite in the poles, which renders the murder even more difficult to understand. It is quite possible that the grieving family and their friends are now threatning the other family and their friends. It is a very small community and vendetta is not unknown in Portugal too, although it cannot be compared to the sicilian way of things. In that aspect, yes we can talk of 'fear' but that is by no means the feeling in the Country and by now GNR is very alert, absolutely for sure. Too late, one would say, but again there were NO real signs of this outcome.

However, this has been used to create yet one more case against the socialist party, not seen, as it should, as an isolated case.

Once more, be careful with waht is being said by the media, and the opposition parties, in this country at least they play dirty. And it does not Portugal any favours
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Hi Maria

Post by Rosie on Sun Oct 18, 2009 11:10 pm





As ever, it is hard to gauge what is going on in another country with regard to the minutiae of the political agenda of each party or political faction, to us, we are seeing the Casa Pia case rumble on so slowly it is painful, we have seen people that should have been charged, let off of those charges on technicalities and so, perpetrators of heinous crimes against children are getting away with it, so it is good when someone like you can guide us back on the rails when we start to come off and maybe wander too far into a political abyss, where really it is not worth going. We are not really wanting to go into the ins and outs of the political allegiances, rather more, we hoped to see this from a complete angle, we have no vote in Portugal, so have no axe to grind either way.

What Chris and I have tried to do is to bring the whole corruption issue up again, which seems to be insidious there, also appears to be creeping insidiously into other areas and other cases. we are trying to do this by pointing to other cases of corruption.
But we take your point, it seems that this story is about small factions feuding, which the press has blown up, but none the less someone has died and to us in the UK, this is horrific, it does shock us, we are not used to this, we may not like our small factions like the BNP and the NF, but generally, we do not go and start shooting them to death.
It is hard to know what your papers are reporting is truth, they are as prone to sensationalism as the British press, but apparently (so I am told) is that the Portuguese press is not really a free press, it is governed by some kind cartel which is operating and in fact that in part, the Portuguese press is actually under some kind of blanket censorship? Which is why we only see the occasional lapse from that "on message"? One paper I could name off of the top of my head which tends to deviate and print something near the truth occasionally is 'The Expresso'?
We do understand what you are saying though and hopefully we can work together to expose wrong where it crops up? The problem we have when trying to mention and talk about any corruption in any agency, be it in Portugal or in the UK, or even the US, or anywhere come to that, is that inevitably this is going to mean we brush up against politics. However, it is not our intention to delve too closely into the politicking of any particular political party, that kind of politics, we agree Maria, should always be kept off the forum, no matter which country they concern.
We thought that to understand a little of the political make-up which is leading to corruption, it may be beneficial to understand what is going on in other places too?

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Re: Portugal and Corruption How Deep Does It Go

Post by maria on Mon Oct 19, 2009 4:56 am

I understand quite well what you are saying, Rosie and Chris. The thing is, you know, that lately, the last 4 to 6 years, media manipulation reached such highs that it is absolutely unbelievable. And I mean both: media being manipulated without knowing it (cartels, political parties, organized crime like the Amarals of this country) and media manipulating the public, knowing well what they are doing. And the situation is such that you simply can not react when you see a piece of news you have to stand back and wait for the developments. And be always on alert and listen from all sides, otherwise you'r doomed.

I'll give you an example, recent but with one and half years of age. Confusing? Roughly one and half years ago, the closest advisor of our President of the Republic approached a reporter from Publico (a reference paper) and told him that the President was interested in seeing a 'leak' in the press about an hypothetical surveillance of the government on the Presidency of the Republic (eyebows risen?OK). Nothing came out. The portuguese People went on sleeping tight, trusting (or mistrusting, according to one's political positioning) our Leaders.

That's when a socialist candidate (running for the parliament) noticed that President's words about the solutions for the crisis were very similar to expressions used by the social democrat leader, and he even said that it looked like as if presidential advisors were writing the social democratic electoral program (August 2009). The President interrupted his holidays to comunicate to the country that he would make a statement after the elections, and moved his advisor to some other functions. Everybody jumped on the socialist candidate/party/government, suspecting that the government was spying on the President. It was a media frenzie.

That is when, in September with the electoral campaign in full swing, Diário de Notícias (semireference paper) splashed on the front page an internal email from a Público reporter to someone else in the same paper telling the story above (the PR would be pleased to have a leak (yes, I know the double meaning...) about security etc). Público's director imediately came out saying that their computers had been hijacked, later the same day he had to retract, this email left Público on paper along with other documents.

After the elections, the President communicated to the country that he was very worried about his computers' security and had then verified that same morning and bla bla bla and what if a citizen decided to participate in the writing of the electoral program (I add, even if this citizen is a President's advisor. Eyes wide open? Mine too. Specially because the President is a social democrat who has been prime ministry for two terms back in the 90s)

Now, don't you think that Diário de Notícias did well, actually very well, exposing a malpractice, better, a corruption-type action, if not from the President himself at least from his closest advisor? I think they did, but it took one and half years to uncover. And the Diário de Notícias' director was ground by ALL other newspapers directors during a RTP1 reference debating program (Prós e contras).
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Re: Portugal and Corruption How Deep Does It Go

Post by dianeh on Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:36 am

Hi Maria

I for one didnt mean to be political. I have no idea about politics in Portugal, but corruption is not about party politics, it is about government culture in general. And it takes all sides of politics to remove that corruption. I dont know one party from another, and apologise if I gave the impression that I do.

On media manipulation, it is not just limited to Portugal. We are only generally only seeing half the story of most news here in Australia. Our press focuses on our opposition and gives our govt a free ride, yet there is plenty that they have done that deserves scrutiny, from helping mates to creating a massive deficit and now this ridiculous economy crippling ETS (Emmissions Trading Scheme). Yet all we hear about is a possible leadership spill in the opposition party. Yes, that is news but not at the expense of the real news, like the influx of boat people, which hardly gets any debate these days. It is just a big joke. There is a culture within the media these days to promote a pro govt agenda, so the news is slanted to that, and that is without government influence over the media. Another example is the crime reporting, where the news is deliberately given to promote the guilt or innocence of those parties.

It is time that media went back to reporting the news, instead of reporting only the news they want us to know. And if Portugal has added influence over their media, then that is very worrying. A free, fair and balanced press is very important to any democracy. Otherwise, who is going to keep the idiots honest.
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Re: Portugal and Corruption How Deep Does It Go

Post by dianeh on Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:38 am

And please note that I did NOT write idiots. I actually wrote 'b**t**ds' and it was automatically replaced by idiots.

The keeping the b's honest is the cry of the Australian Democrats (a now defunct party) that once held the balance of power in the Senate. So they were a very influential minor party. But completely useless if the both major parties got into bed together. That is why the media is so important.
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Re: Portugal and Corruption How Deep Does It Go

Post by Robert Argiz on Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:18 am

How deep is corruption and perversion in Portugal? If you understand the meaning of the word "core" in English that would be how deep the problem is in Portugal [and in Spain too]. See some related writings at: http://the-elite-and-child-abduction.blogspot.com

My name is Robert Argiz and my address is: rargiz@gmail.com

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Re: Portugal and Corruption How Deep Does It Go

Post by rosemary on Sat Jan 09, 2010 12:47 am

Maria it is with respect that I ask you how you would feel if we amongst others pressed for an independent European investigation into corruption within Portugal, via the Court of Human Rights?

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Re: Portugal and Corruption How Deep Does It Go

Post by maria on Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:02 pm

Rosemary

I didn't see your post until just now. It wouldn't hurt me in the least if people went on to EU asking for help to combat corruption in Portugal. However, I do think that the same has probably happened with Italy... Outcome?
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Re: Portugal and Corruption How Deep Does It Go

Post by maria on Sat Feb 06, 2010 11:51 pm

1 -I asked you somewhere else to retain the name of Manuela Moura Guedes, an ex-reporter at TVI, famous for many things, including the systematic 'uncovering' of our PM (and Socialist Party secretary general), that also systematically start by an anonymous tip that invariably link to PJ or PP (public prosecutor) and the right wing of our politics. Herself having been a MP for the christian democrats. Some information at the wikipedia under her name.

2 . I also mentioned the name of José Eduardo Moniz, former director general of TVI who was eager to acquire the rights of C4 video as he had been about GA's in order to 'boost' shares. He left TVI the beginning of August 2009, You will find the news from every corner of the country goggling 'José Eduardo Moniz deixa a TVI'.

3 . Whem MMG left TVI, was completely involved in 'pushing forward' a process started in 2002 triggered by an anonymous letter (as stated above) sent from Setúbal, I think, and involving the then Environment Minister José Socrates, in a deal re a british Freeport in Alcochete. The investigation was dormant during the government of the social democrats, and surfaced again, timidly, when early elections were called in 2005. In spite of that, the socialist won with absolute majority and therefore it was necessary full force ahead with the subject. A scot was identified and made arguido, with his lawyer, Socrates family named and involved but nothing was found, the sender of the letter discovered as being a member of the local council, a christian democrat, who wrote the letter dictated by a PJ officer when they quietly were sitting at a coffee shop. The Serious fraud Office was involved, as a video showing the scot (Brian Smith is his name) and other known people, where he says that Sócrates 'is corrupt, very corrupt' came to light and the main british company alledgedly discovered a hole of £2M that eventually landed in Portugal brought by Smith to pay the bribes to get the authorization to build the Freeport. At this point, PGR moved the process from Setúbal to the Central Departement of Investigation and Penal Action (DCIAP). Then, the video, unacceptable in our courts as proof, was joined to the process and after several trips to London, it was found out that the main corporation did not find any hole in their accounts and that the SFO closed their process. New elections were looming and the process threatening to go away in bubbles so MMG had to keep it high on the news, no matter what. (as a side comment, GA also mentioned it two or three times during interviews and comments to illustrate the political corruption going on and the cumplicity between 'England' and Portugal). The process is still currently under secrecy and undergoing, no charge has been yet made... But it already cost the post to the president of Eurojust, accused by two 'Freeport case' prosecutors of 'pressure' to archive the process eventually 'on order' of the former Justice Minister.

4 . In the meantime, in Aveiro, a well known prosecutor, Marques Vidal, and a well known judge, Costa Gomes, were working on uncovering a case of economic corruption envolving a scrap metal entrepeneur, a big one of course, and the railway company, later the electrical company as well, all state owned. And surprise surprise, the link was Armando Vara, a very close friend of the PM, an executive director of a private bank, BCP. Very soon (only just before the elections that took place in September) this started leaking to the media. It seems that Vara received 10 000€ to 'whisper' something in favour of Godinho (teh entrepeneur) on the ears of the top management of these companies. What a stupid guy he is! 10m bribe for a guy who earns 17 000 a month! Vara, Godinho and Penedos, president of EDP (electrical company) were made arguidos. MMG had in the meantime left TVI. And it is discovered that the PM had been tapped because of his calls to Vara who, as I said, is close friend of his. The tappings (authorized by Aveiro judge) and the prosecutor's conclusions were sent to the PGR and from here to the Supreme Court. As it was the PM who was being tapped, only the President of the Supreme Court could authorize the taps. The President of the Spreme came to the conclusion that there was nothing in these recordings that could remotely be interpreted as corruption and therefore the recordings and written documents based on them should be destroyed. This was also the understanding of the PGR, although he couldn't intervene on the destiny to give to the documents/recordings. The Aveiro judge refuses the destruction...

5. MMG manages to be accepted as assistant to this process. The economic crime slowly turns into an interference of the government in the 'freedom of the media, freedom of expression' (GA swiftly moves from the Freeport case to the Face Oculta case, by the way). And yesterday Sol newspaper publishes a bombastic article making public the documents issued by the Aveiro judge were it is said that there are 'very strong indices of a plan, devised by the PM, to attack the media'. Moniz declares today that if it is so, it is 'scary'. And this is still the beginning. Wait for developments.

One could say 'oh how corrupt is this man!' refering to Sócrates. Or one could also think 'oh how corrupt and stupid this man is!'. Because the PM should know exactly the methods and tricks used around here and do not put himself in a position to be caught, right? Also, a corrupt, a really one, knows how to do it, and get away with it. Look at Berlusconi, look at the president of regional government of Madeira, Alberto João Jardim.

There is corruption, no doubt about it.

But why is it that the 'corrupt' is always the same, no matter what crime starts the investigation it always and invariably turns into an ' attack to freedom of speach'? And the real, initial crimes go univestigated, unpunished, fall into oblivion?

I hope this stories help you understand when I tell you to be careful when criticising news on corruption, they may well be more devious than what meets the eye.

One thing to illustrate what I just said: until now, I did not totally agree with positions here where GA was linked to corruption circles, other than the usual local corruption between members of the justice systems (police, prosecutors, judges). I'm watching closely now.

And if you google Face Oculta and google translate, there you will have everything.
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Re: Portugal and Corruption How Deep Does It Go

Post by rosemary on Sun Feb 07, 2010 12:14 am

Maria I hope you are not confusing me with Rosiepops? It has happened before!
Fascinating post of yours though. How wonderful that "oculta" translates in English into "hidden" - in English the "Occult" is defined as the "mysterious" and is used only in connection with the "dark underworld mystical forces"! I guess it means the same in Portugese!

I don´t think that Robert Argiz is interested in pursuing his exposure of the corruption in Portugal through us and our Forum. He PM´d me a few weeks ago in some degree of disillusion with Forums. All words and no action he said. Well maybe Portugal is a somewhat bigger problem than we can manage on here, but it is good to have insider information Maria. Thankyou. I cannot believe that someone out there in the world of political movement, with a great deal more clout than us, is not already attempting to do the very thing that Robert wishes. The EU courts seem an obvious route to go down. But who has the courage.??? Aren´t ALL governments corrupt, to a degree?

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Re: Portugal and Corruption How Deep Does It Go

Post by Rosie on Sun Feb 07, 2010 4:05 am

Well Robert is free to think what he likes, with regard to all words and no action, but I remember a particular "action" of his that if carried out would have brought all the sympathy directly to the feet of GA!

I don't think Maria has confused us, Maria knows my style now I think!

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Re: Portugal and Corruption How Deep Does It Go

Post by Tinkerbell43 on Sun Feb 07, 2010 4:29 am

I appreciate Robert was generalising but Robert would be very surprised at what goes on behind the scenes here! It certainly is not all talk thats for sure.
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PORTUGAL, CORUPTION, CHILD ABUSE?

Post by Royal on Sun Feb 07, 2010 4:45 am

I have a tremendous admiration for Maria who has always been most informative and fair minded in critisizing and condemning both the moral, legal and political circumstances within her own country. This cannot have been an easy thing for her to do after all, Portugal, good or bad is still the place of her birth and her homeland. It must be quite hurtful knowing her country is under such scrutiny and being subjected to some extremely adverse criticism from alien sources or to be more exact, what must seem to some Portuguese as just plain interfering foreigners. We in Britain wouldn't be terribly happy were the circumstances reversed and goodness knows the amount of corruption at the moment within our own government is hardly a good example of British democracy at work! I fully agree with Maria that this forum is not the place to be discussing Portugals political issues and parties but at the same time where political corruption overlaps with moral issues such as police coruption, criminal injustice, child abduction and abuse it must obviously leave itself open to worldwide condemnation. Even so I cannot thank Maria enough for all the tremendous help, advice and unbiased information she has provided to this forum during these very stressful times, she is a delightful lady and a wonderful friend.
Alroy.

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