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Kate and Gerry McCann make visit to Portugal

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Re: Kate and Gerry McCann make visit to Portugal

Post by Tinkerbell43 on Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:10 pm

Thats the most unforgivable thing of all Clairesy, no thought to what it is doing to the search for Madeleine.

I cant believe his wife has blamed the McCanns for the stress in their life, when is she going to wake up and smell the coffee. If Gonc had anything of significance its about time he put the money he has earned off of Madeleine where his mouth is.

But of course he wont, because he can't. He has nothing, never did have anything other than a big ego & appetite!.

I just wonder how many more innocent people there are behind bars because of Gonc. It is criminal what this man has been allowed to get away with. Question is, why has this man been allowed to get away with it.
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Re: Kate and Gerry McCann make visit to Portugal

Post by maria on Sat Sep 26, 2009 4:44 am

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Re: Kate and Gerry McCann make visit to Portugal

Post by calcite51 on Sat Sep 26, 2009 5:03 am

Thanks, Maria for the links. Very interesting and these are the parents that some people accuse of unspeakable crimes. I felt so bad when I read that Mrs. McCann cries every day for Madeleine.
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Re: Kate and Gerry McCann make visit to Portugal

Post by Pedro Silva on Sat Sep 26, 2009 5:55 am

Maria, my friend, thank you for those three links you posted here.

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Re: Kate and Gerry McCann make visit to Portugal

Post by Chicane on Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:59 am

Thanks for the links.

Just my view on things. Isabel Duarte is hammering on the case being closed, but not solved just a bit too hard to ignore.

IMHO:

There are two main reasons for the McCanns trip to Portugal.

1. The detectives trip to Portugal brought new tracks, new evidence delivered. However, without the cooperation of the Portuguese authorities McCanns can't do a thing.

2. The outcome of the secret trial to ban Amaral's book and DVD and prohibiton to public talks about the case, is a gift from heaven.

But there is still a long way to go. Amaral has some strong arguments against McCanns. Most important: the refusal of the McCanns to cooperate with the PJ investigation has led to closure of the case because of lack of evidence.
It is the weakest link in the defense of the McCanns and gives Amaral enough space to continue his accusations of the McCanns being involved in the disappereance of Madeleine.

It is in Kate and Gerry's best interests to get the case re-opened, so that the new trails or evidence can be investigated while they work on rehabilitation and ofcourse the amount of money that is involved!
So somehow I think a visit to the Portugese Minister of Justice, Alberto Costa was worth to ratify their request..??

Portugal maintains course conditions: Re-opening is only possible if:
1. The McCanns have new evidence ... the results of the examination by the detectives.
2. Kate must answer 48 questions
3. Both should contribute to a reconstruction with the help of the Tapas friends or actors.

I do not expect point 2 and 3 will help to clarify any guilt or innocence of Kate and Gerry. The outcome is the same.
Return of a living Madeleine is the only way to show the world Kate and Gerry are innocent.

But re-opening of the case and cooperate with the PJ is the best way
to slap Amaral's arguments out of his hands, save Amaral for speaking and improve their position in the courtcase against him.

Kate and Gerry McCann have the best PR agency ....themselves.
And they go for the pot of gold: 1,2 million Euro.
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Re: Kate and Gerry McCann make visit to Portugal

Post by dianeh on Sat Sep 26, 2009 12:23 pm

But there is still a long way to go. Amaral has some strong arguments against McCanns. Most important: the refusal of the McCanns to cooperate with the PJ investigation has led to closure of the case because of lack of evidence.
It is the weakest link in the defense of the McCanns and gives Amaral enough space to continue his accusations of the McCanns being involved in the disappereance of Madeleine.

Chicane, this is irrelevant in a libel case. What the McCanns did was within their rights as arguido!! One could argue they were made arguido so that they didnt have to answer any questions, and they could be made to look as though they were not co-operating. The McCanns do not have to defend their innocence, it is supported by the official findings in the case. Amaral must prove the official findings wrong, and it must be done with more than hearsay and twisted facts, and outright lies.

Kate didnt answer those disgraceful questions on the advice of her solicitor, and this was because of the nature of the question, not because of Kate's guilt or innocence. Most of the questions should never have been asked, and certainly should never have been made public prior to the closing of the case. That is one leak that should have attracted the attention of authorities.

The McCanns offered to do the reconstruction, it was their friends that refused to come over. Yet, the McCanns previously asked for a reconstruction and it was refused. ANd unless for eg Robert Murat is placed in the reconstruction as well, then how it is even possible, after all there are numerous witnesses that placed him there that night. And further, waiting 12 months to do a reconstruction is ridiculous.

But regardless, none of this is relevant to a libel case. It doesnt matter what the McCanns did, all that matters is whether or not Amaral can prove what he has accused them of is true. ANd he cant.

The only way the case will be reopened is with new evidence, yet new evidence in the form of leads have been passed to the PJ, and no action has been taken. IMO, the only evidence that will lead to the opening of the case is if Madeleine is found.
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Re: Kate and Gerry McCann make visit to Portugal

Post by maria on Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:27 pm

I don't agree with you Chicane. Not answering the 48 questions put to Kate is not a weak link, it is her own defense. These questions are meant to incriminate Kate herself, not to find Madeleine or try to detemine what might have happened to her. It is her right not to answer, I would even say it is her duty. To preserve herself for Madeleine and the twins.

About the reconstruction. First, it was suggested in due time, that is, still in May/2007, refused by PJ why is it so important for PJ now? The reconstruction is intended to clarify the small differences/contradictions among the 'participants' statements. How can PJ intend to fix that using the very same people? If early after the events they were not sure about the exact time, the exact side of the street, etc, how can they be sure now?

No Chicane, these two aspects are not weakest link or necessary OUTSIDE a full restart of the investigation. This is nothing else but Amaral's chitchat.
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Re: Kate and Gerry McCann make visit to Portugal

Post by vee8 on Sun Sep 27, 2009 1:58 am

But there is still a long way to go. Amaral has some strong arguments against McCanns. Most important: the refusal of the McCanns to cooperate with the PJ investigation has led to closure of the case because of lack of evidence.
It is the weakest link in the defense of the McCanns and gives Amaral enough space to continue his accusations of the McCanns being involved in the disappereance of Madeleine.


Who said the McCann's refused to co-operate with the PJ? amaral! It is clear the McCann's bent over backwards to help, but were rebutted at every turn by the fat defective. It was THEY who practically BEGGED to do a televised reconstruction, and it was the PJ who refused. So the real question is, why didn't the PJ co-operate with the McCann's?
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Re: Kate and Gerry McCann make visit to Portugal

Post by Pedro Silva on Sun Sep 27, 2009 2:21 am

Chicane, by answering to those 48 questions, was to confess something they never did neither thought. Their solicitor advised them not to answer. Mrs.McCann didn┤t answer, Mr. McCann told they would never do something that could hurt their child, as it can be seen (without doubt) by the way the twins are well and kindly treated, also all photos of sweet Madeleine shows how kindly her parents care about her, care about the twins.

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Re: Kate and Gerry McCann make visit to Portugal

Post by Tinkerbell43 on Sun Sep 27, 2009 7:14 am

I do not believe the McCanns did not cooperate with the PJ.

Many people exercise their right to a "no comment" on advice of their Solicitors, but cases still go on to be solved.

The case was closed because of lack of evidence due imo to the initial incompetance by Amaral.

They requested a reconstruction in the early days when it would have been meaningful. Kate begged Rebelo to update them, he never replied and I dont think he ever even met them.

These poor parents so badly let down, they have nothing to prove.

As for Amaral, I dont even know how people can believe a disgraced, convicted perjurer who wasn't even privvy to the final 8 months of the investigation.

And why people choose to believe Amaral over the Portuguese Attorney Generals final conclusion is really beyond my comprehension.
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Re: Kate and Gerry McCann make visit to Portugal

Post by calcite51 on Sun Sep 27, 2009 7:35 am

I agree completely with everyone on this site. No way should Kate have answered those 48 questions - I'm glad she took the advise of her solicitor. The 48 questions had nothing to do with finding madeleine.
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Re: Kate and Gerry McCann make visit to Portugal

Post by Chicane on Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:49 am

I think this is a discussion on different levels.

There is a difference between giving your opinion on Kate and Gerry McCann or anticipate what the situation seems to be.

My opinion:
From the first days I believe in the innocence of Kate and Gerry, Madeleine is alive and she will come back.
In the past 2.5 years my view has not changed!
I have and had much to the insights of Matthew James, I share the vision of Nigel in his "Madeleine: A destiny begun" because I think he is right 80% and the rest are my private thoughts in the quest for the meaning of this world event.

In the matter of the 48 questions I would have done exactly the same as Kate. The position of arguida Kate quite rightly made use of her right to silence, especially when you read how the questions focus on the demonization and criminalization of the mother of Madeleine. The questions have nothing to do with the search for Madeleine.

Yes it is true that the McCanns have asked for a reconstruction under the supervision of TV cameras and the PJ refused to accept their terms. The Tapas friend have prevented a reconstruction, but the McCanns were blamed anyhow.

I have no words for Amaral and his mad obsession to get his tunnel vision confirmed. Because I also run a forum I think it's important to take note of Amaral's book, but I refused to pay blood money.
I got the book as a gift and it is for my nose on my desk.
My blood boiled when I read it and have his book at least once thrown across the room, I was so angry.
This man will end up in prision and that is exactly where a corrupt policeman belongs.

Bennett / Butler / Smith are users for their own benefit: the scum of the earth. Carter Ruck will make a landslide victory dealing with them.

In many discussions I defend Kate and Gerry, even if I have critism or questions, a normal and healthy thing, but never changed my approach.

So it is not necessary to convince me, I'm already convinced.

Anticipation IMHO:
I try to put down the options, obstacles and arguments that both sides (McCann v. Amaral) can and will use and are certainly relevant in the libel court case. Nothing more or less.

To see what ammunition Amaral can bring in is the same as stepping in the shoes of the devil's advocate.

I have stated that what seems necessary legal (!) To get the case reopened: new evidence, answer 48 questions and participate in the reconstruction.Options! Not to be confused with my opinion!

The destructive impact of Amaral in his book and DVD, is the public opinion, particular in Portugal, strongly against the parents.
The 2 mentioned conditions, the 48 questions and reconstruction, are part of a series of accusations in book Amaral.

Public opinion is a serious problem Kate and Gerry have to deal with to trace information or potential witnesses.

I did not say that I think Kate should answer the 48 quetions or they should participate in the reconstruction. It is not up to me to decide that.

I just pointed out the options McCanns have to get the case re-opened and Amaral silenced. That's all.
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Re: Kate and Gerry McCann make visit to Portugal

Post by Tinkerbell43 on Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:50 am

I understand where you are coming from Chicane

Personally I have serious reservations as to whether the case will ever be reopened. I just cannot see the PJ co-operating with the McCanns PI's.

If we believe the papers, we know since the case has been closed, people that have tried to pass on information have been met with "Madeleine is dead, the case is closed" Even if their PR drive turns public opinion in their favour, they still have a big obstacle in the PJ.

Maybe this is why they were meeting with their lawyers in Portugal. Who decides if something is credible enough to reopen the case ?
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Re: Kate and Gerry McCann make visit to Portugal

Post by calcite51 on Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:24 am

Thank you for explaining your position Chicane - it does make sense. If Kate did answer the useless 48 questions, can you imagine the blogs all doing in-depth analysis of her replies - it would be horrible and keep us going for a year. I have questioned at times why the McCanns weren't taking the blogs to task over the insane chatter (some of it was very libellious imho), when Tony sat right behind Dr. Gerry McCann (now if that is not stalking, I don't know what is), etc. I've marvelled at how they have refused to get in a mud slingling content with Amaral. Yes, all in all I support the way Kate and Gerry have handled these difficult situations and I hope the legal system will shut up Amaral and Tony as well. Time will tell....
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Re: Kate and Gerry McCann make visit to Portugal

Post by dianeh on Sun Sep 27, 2009 12:18 pm

Chicane

Im sorry if you thought that I was making light of your support for the McCanns.

For myself, I was stating that Amaral's arguments, as you put them, are actually extremely weak. THe points that you make as Amaral's arguments will not even be taken into account in the libel action.

I do take your point however, that he uses them to wage some sort of public opinion battle with the McCann's. Unfortunately for Amaral, public opinion will not dictate the outcome of the libel action.

Bascially, if the points you raise, are the weakest links in the McCann's defense (and remember, they do not have to make a defense, it is Amaral which must raise the defense), then Amaral's goose is well and truly cooked.
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Re: Kate and Gerry McCann make visit to Portugal

Post by dianeh on Sun Sep 27, 2009 12:20 pm

Chicane

I also want to add that I was interested to hear your reaction to reading his book. I imagine it too would make my blood boil if I were actually able to read it.

The McCanns are lucky to have people like you to support them against the despicable actions of people like Amaral and Bennett.
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Re: Kate and Gerry McCann make visit to Portugal

Post by vee8 on Sun Sep 27, 2009 5:43 pm

Chicane, a very well thought out response, and you make your position very clear. But be careful about trying to put yourself in gonzo's mind, that is a dark and evil place, I would be worried about your health if you did that.
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Re: Kate and Gerry McCann make visit to Portugal

Post by Chicane on Sun Sep 27, 2009 7:51 pm

Yeah I know Amarals mind . thanks anyway Vee8.

Tinkerbell

After consultation with the Attorney General of the Public Ministry and Judges on behalf of the Judiciary, it is the Minister of Justice, Alberto Costa, who decides to reopen the case. But...a call from the Prime-Minister JosÚ Socrates would be enough to push the decision in the right direction...

Calcite51

Like many, in the last 2,5 years, I was shocked and stunned, watching a humiliating process of perceived threats and extreme statements on various blogs and forums.
This has nothing to do with freedom of expression.
It is a system of constantly harass, stalking and terrorize with the McCanns as target. It is pure horror.

With the leaflet drop borders were crossed: enough is enough.
On behalf of his clients, Carter Ruck did pull the website of the Madeleine Foundation and had it removed from the Internet.
The forgery offence is a criminal act and will probably get a nasty tail for someone, I suspect.
I wonder how long it takes before the Morais blog and the forum of the illustrious Ambersuz will disappear from the Internet.

Deep respect for Kate and Gerry for the way they have to endure all these nonsense without losing their dignity.

Dianeh

Don't worry, I may have contributed to the confusion.

The two points I highlighted are in context with McCanns visit to Portugal, the conditions to re-opening the case and because Amaral will use them among all his other arguments against McCanns.
I am sure none of his arguments will hold in the libel case.

For what it is worth, Debbie Butler said that someone is working very hard to get Amarals book published in the UK. These things takes (a holiday) time...If the book ever reaches the bookstore, do hurry, before Brian Kennedy is on his way to buy them all to prefend further sale.
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Re: Kate and Gerry McCann make visit to Portugal

Post by maria on Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:07 pm


After consultation with the Attorney General of the Public Ministry and Judges on behalf of the Judiciary, it is the Minister of Justice, Alberto Costa, who decides to reopen the case. But...a call from the Prime-Minister JosÚ Socrates would be enough to push the decision in the right direction...

Being portuguese and on the day where I am NOT voting for Socrates, believing firmly that the McCanns have been victims of a hedious crime and considering ALL the attempts so far to bring this case to the political arena, I do not endorse that way to reopen the case.

The title of the forthcoming Amaral's book is self explanatory on this matter 'The English (or British) gag'. He always tried to bring the case into the political arena. As others have tried before and after with other cases.

Please, allow the justice to follow its own path. No matter which side the criminal(s) come from, they are, before anything else, CRIMINALS.
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