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JOINT STATEMENT BY DEBBIE BUTLER (CHAIRMAN) AND TONY BENNETT (SECRETARY) ON LEGAL LETTERS RECEIVED FROM CARTER-RUCK

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Re: JOINT STATEMENT BY DEBBIE BUTLER (CHAIRMAN) AND TONY BENNETT (SECRETARY) ON LEGAL LETTERS RECEIVED FROM CARTER-RUCK

Post by Guest on Fri Sep 18, 2009 7:46 pm

As far as i can tell butler and bennett are'nt going to take it down and they are still posting out leaflets to those requesting them.

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Re: JOINT STATEMENT BY DEBBIE BUTLER (CHAIRMAN) AND TONY BENNETT (SECRETARY) ON LEGAL LETTERS RECEIVED FROM CARTER-RUCK

Post by Peaceful1 on Fri Sep 18, 2009 8:06 pm

Mulleena wrote:As far as i can tell butler and bennett are'nt going to take it down and they are still posting out leaflets to those requesting them.

Are the pair of them on a death wish??
Or are they really THAT stupid?
Oh well...
Suppose if you're gonna go down, may as well go with a bang.
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Re: JOINT STATEMENT BY DEBBIE BUTLER (CHAIRMAN) AND TONY BENNETT (SECRETARY) ON LEGAL LETTERS RECEIVED FROM CARTER-RUCK

Post by Zavvi on Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:21 pm

Peaceful1 wrote:
Mulleena wrote:As far as i can tell butler and bennett are'nt going to take it down and they are still posting out leaflets to those requesting them.

Are the pair of them on a death wish??
Or are they really THAT stupid?
Oh well...
Suppose if you're gonna go down, may as well go with a bang.
Think so, or a big splash .......glug glug glug.....
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Re: JOINT STATEMENT BY DEBBIE BUTLER (CHAIRMAN) AND TONY BENNETT (SECRETARY) ON LEGAL LETTERS RECEIVED FROM CARTER-RUCK

Post by christabel on Sat Sep 19, 2009 1:34 am

I see it, but I don't believe it - Bennett is arguing with Carter Ruck:

http://madeleinefoundation.org/main/2009....ine-foundation/

He was asked what he was going to do:

Reply by Tony Bennett

I cannot yet say whether we will comply in part or in whole or not at all.

We have taken initial legal advice and have been told that the issues are so complex, that the case is of national and international importance and that there is a great deal at stake for both parties, therefore we have been advised to seek further advice from a barrister.

I cannot unfortunately disclose what legal advice we have received and cannot anticipate what the barrister might advise.

We have asked Carter-Ruck for a short period of further time therefore in which to receive and consider that legal advice.

I can dislcose however that we are clearly advised that it is reasonable for us to seek a further slight delay in making a substantive response to Carter-Ruck, since the McCanns and their advisers were aware of the contents of our website and booklet back on 20 October 2008 – and for reasons we are yet to find out delayed for 311 days before taking any action whatsoever regarding the contents of either.

That is we suggest a wholly unreasonable delay, if the McCanns and their lawyers genuinely believed, as they now claim, that our website ‘threatened serious harm to the McCanns’ reputation’.
I would add that whenever the McCanns’ spokesman Clarence Mitchell was asked about our actions, be it our website, the publication of our ‘60 Reasons’ booklet or our ‘10 Raesons’ leaflet etc., he has always responded with the same words: “We will not dignify The Madeleine Foundation by making any response”.

Dr Gerald McCann said the selfsame words in his blog entry for 19 August 2009, just eight days before Carter-Ruck wrote their legal letter


He doesn't get it, does he?

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Re: JOINT STATEMENT BY DEBBIE BUTLER (CHAIRMAN) AND TONY BENNETT (SECRETARY) ON LEGAL LETTERS RECEIVED FROM CARTER-RUCK

Post by vee8 on Sat Sep 19, 2009 1:38 am

christabel wrote:I see it, but I don't believe it - Bennett is arguing with Carter Ruck:

http://madeleinefoundation.org/main/2009....ine-foundation/

He was asked what he was going to do:

Reply by Tony Bennett

I cannot yet say whether we will comply in part or in whole or not at all.

We have taken initial legal advice and have been told that the issues are so complex, that the case is of national and international importance and that there is a great deal at stake for both parties, therefore we have been advised to seek further advice from a barrister.

I cannot unfortunately disclose what legal advice we have received and cannot anticipate what the barrister might advise.

We have asked Carter-Ruck for a short period of further time therefore in which to receive and consider that legal advice.

I can dislcose however that we are clearly advised that it is reasonable for us to seek a further slight delay in making a substantive response to Carter-Ruck, since the McCanns and their advisers were aware of the contents of our website and booklet back on 20 October 2008 – and for reasons we are yet to find out delayed for 311 days before taking any action whatsoever regarding the contents of either.

That is we suggest a wholly unreasonable delay, if the McCanns and their lawyers genuinely believed, as they now claim, that our website ‘threatened serious harm to the McCanns’ reputation’.
I would add that whenever the McCanns’ spokesman Clarence Mitchell was asked about our actions, be it our website, the publication of our ‘60 Reasons’ booklet or our ‘10 Raesons’ leaflet etc., he has always responded with the same words: “We will not dignify The Madeleine Foundation by making any response”.

Dr Gerald McCann said the selfsame words in his blog entry for 19 August 2009, just eight days before Carter-Ruck wrote their legal letter


He doesn't get it, does he?

http://justathoughtyouknow.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=guests&thread=115&page=17

His arrogance will be his downfall.
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Re: JOINT STATEMENT BY DEBBIE BUTLER (CHAIRMAN) AND TONY BENNETT (SECRETARY) ON LEGAL LETTERS RECEIVED FROM CARTER-RUCK

Post by Rosie on Sat Sep 19, 2009 2:36 am

vee8 wrote:Rosie and the admin team, I don't know how big a part, if any, you played in this, but if you did, however small, then I want to thank you sincerely, from the bottom of my heart, for all your dedicated hard work in this. So too do I thank everyone else, from the heavy hitters in the legal profession, all the way down to ordinary bloggers like us. This is a great day for Madeleine and her family, and I look forward with great anticipation to the future. Once again thank you all, and well done!

Thanks Vee, perhaps when we say something in future they will stop thinking we are bluffing and judging us by the same lying standards those people live their own lives! We kept telling them we do not make idle threats and we stay within the law, what they were doing to Madeleine and her family was just plain wrong.
Yet they are still trying to carry on as if nothing has happened, just like a smack head looking for their next fix, they are actually addicted to the hate and venom, Madeleine means nothing to them and never has! I honestly have no further sympathy for them, they know exactly what they are doing now and the risks they are running, so on their own heads be it!
However, they should remember, this is just the start!

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Re: JOINT STATEMENT BY DEBBIE BUTLER (CHAIRMAN) AND TONY BENNETT (SECRETARY) ON LEGAL LETTERS RECEIVED FROM CARTER-RUCK

Post by rosemary on Sat Sep 19, 2009 2:37 am

He is clinging to a life raft and inevitably sinking. Carter Ruck will have justification for a delayed response up their sleeve as an ace card. The Rothley drop dropped him in it.

The McCanns and their legal advisers gave him and his despicable followers enough time to reconsider their vile actions over and over again. K&G reluctantly decided at the last hour, after more evidence of outright harassment and ever more forum encitement to hatred and defamation, to make a legal move against this odious person. This shows that they themselves are not vexatious but are unwilling litigants who have been provoked beyond endurance into action. (I should have been a lawyer. I´d crucify him).

The man is a fool and is hanging on for rescue. Will his Barrister (God help him!) want to pit his wits against Carter Ruck????

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Re: JOINT STATEMENT BY DEBBIE BUTLER (CHAIRMAN) AND TONY BENNETT (SECRETARY) ON LEGAL LETTERS RECEIVED FROM CARTER-RUCK

Post by Rosie on Sat Sep 19, 2009 2:38 am

Zavvi wrote:
Peaceful1 wrote:
Mulleena wrote:As far as i can tell butler and bennett are'nt going to take it down and they are still posting out leaflets to those requesting them.

Are the pair of them on a death wish??
Or are they really THAT stupid?
Oh well...
Suppose if you're gonna go down, may as well go with a bang.
Think so, or a big splash .......glug glug glug.....


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Re: JOINT STATEMENT BY DEBBIE BUTLER (CHAIRMAN) AND TONY BENNETT (SECRETARY) ON LEGAL LETTERS RECEIVED FROM CARTER-RUCK

Post by rosemary on Sat Sep 19, 2009 2:56 am

The more I think about this the more i I believe that it will all end in a sigh and a winge and a whisper......but it will continue in some other form. To explain:
There is no way TB can afford a Barrister and an International court case, let alone win such a contest. My forecast is he will give way, moan and move his foul endeavours to continue to wreak havoc with the lives of K&G, from the perceived safety of an internationally placed website under yet another guise.

Unless it can be legally prevented under international law as it stands at the moment. Anyone know?

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Re: JOINT STATEMENT BY DEBBIE BUTLER (CHAIRMAN) AND TONY BENNETT (SECRETARY) ON LEGAL LETTERS RECEIVED FROM CARTER-RUCK

Post by rosemary on Sat Sep 19, 2009 3:35 am

2 clues as to his state of mind made me think the above...the wingeing moan about the Carter Rucks being the most expensive libel team in the UK (why was this relevant?) and the moan at the end about waiting on the opinion of a Barrister. YES because his own lawyer or legal adviser has assuredly informed him he would need one, and that he would have a massive fight on his hands. And that all he can hope for now is a little more time. I am lovin this.....this is not schadenfreude by the way, this is retribution.

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Re: JOINT STATEMENT BY DEBBIE BUTLER (CHAIRMAN) AND TONY BENNETT (SECRETARY) ON LEGAL LETTERS RECEIVED FROM CARTER-RUCK

Post by Rosie on Sat Sep 19, 2009 4:40 am

My reply in red italics.

christabel wrote:I see it, but I don't believe it - Bennett is arguing with Carter Ruck:

http://madeleinefoundation.org/main/2009....ine-foundation/

He was asked what he was going to do:

Reply by Tony Bennett

I cannot yet say whether we will comply in part or in whole or not at all.


He can say, but he just doesn't want to!


We have taken initial legal advice and have been told that the issues are so complex, that the case is of national and international importance and that there is a great deal at stake for both parties, therefore we have been advised to seek further advice from a barrister.

Strange sort of legal consultation, they go to clarify their legal position and are advised about what the other party has to lose? Still trying to big himself p now, national and international importance, for goodness sakes stop bullshi**ing man!
Yes you have gone and done it this time haven't you, you are in such serious trouble that you now have to seek the advice of a barrister, no doubt versed in libel law. I could save you the time, trouble and expense, I could tell you what your position is, the same as I have been telling you for 19 months - idiot!


I cannot unfortunately disclose what legal advice we have received and cannot anticipate what the barrister might advise.

I know what advice you received, *dire*, you are in deep doo doo and you both stand to lose your homes and a lot more besides. If you had received any good advice at all and seeing how difficult you find it keeping you mouth shut, you would have had it all down in a statement by now. You see I do actually know a libel law barrister and he has looked at this and he thinks you are both on a hiding to nothing, you are actually in a dreadful situation and the *very best* you can hope for is to prostrate yourselves and beg for forgiveness, in the hope that the McCanns will take pity on you and settle out of court in return for a whole list of assurances etc. But then there would still be the matter of their legal fees to attend to.

We have asked Carter-Ruck for a short period of further time therefore in which to receive and consider that legal advice.

How much time do you want? You have known this since 1st September and you did nothing. You played games and you have carried on with your libellous activities and defamation, what did you think would happen? Stick your heads in the sand and it would all go away?

I can dislcose however that we are clearly advised that it is reasonable for us to seek a further slight delay in making a substantive response to Carter-Ruck, since the McCanns and their advisers were aware of the contents of our website and booklet back on 20 October 2008 – and for reasons we are yet to find out delayed for 311 days before taking any action whatsoever regarding the contents of either.

As I said, you are clearly advised that it is reasonable to seek more time, but did you tell the solicitor that the time you did have in which you should have responded, you wasted, and did not do anything about it and in fact filled that time, NOT clarifying your position, but spent it libelling, defaming and threatening the couple some more? Making up some email you pretended came from "Goncalol Amaralol" and email he did not send, you used this to advertise a meeting you have actually planned near the couple's home, in order to threaten their equilibrium and defame them some more with unproven gossip.
POINT OF LAW.....It does not matter a jot who else did what and in what time, the only thing that now matters, is that you were sent a writ which you ignored, what the McCanns did or did not do has NOTHING to do with you - fool!
If it were up to me, I would tell you that you have had all the time you needed to take action and advice and you failed and now you have to suffer the consequences.


That is we suggest a wholly unreasonable delay, if the McCanns and their lawyers genuinely believed, as they now claim, that our website ‘threatened serious harm to the McCanns’ reputation’.

There is no ifs or buts about it, your website is affecting their integrity and their reputation, you publish posts from people who accuse them of murdering their daughter, cutting her up and posting limb shape parcels home, done up in brown paper and duct tape. (All nicely screengrabbed)
Pardon the pun Butler and Bennett, but you do not have a leg to stand on, you idiots! Get this in your head, they are not wanting to read your stupid arguments, it is those that got you into this mess!


I would add that whenever the McCanns’ spokesman Clarence Mitchell was asked about our actions, be it our website, the publication of our ‘60 Reasons’ booklet or our ‘10 Raesons’ leaflet etc., he has always responded with the same words: “We will not dignify The Madeleine Foundation by making any response”.

Bennett, you do realise this is Carter Ruck you are arguing with? And that it is doubtful that they erm, give a damn about you or your asinine puerile arguments. Whether they made a response to you or not, is neither here nor there and will not be of any use in a court of law.

Dr Gerald McCann said the selfsame words in his blog entry for 19 August 2009, just eight days before Carter-Ruck wrote their legal letter


Bennett, did Gerry McCanns defame you in anyway on his blog? No, then what point are you trying to make? He said, she said, will not cut it you fool.
It seems that Bennett and Butler do not understand the seriousness of the trouble they are in.

I wonder if anyone has actually advised Butler that she is in serious danger of losing her £295.000 home?

Now I do not actually want to see anyone lose their home, least of all an innocent little lad, but it appears that Butler is not that concerned about her son, or her home. In the interim from receiving these letters, she has had every chance to, take herself off of the Foundation and as she is Founder of it, it would have ceased to be without her, this would not have saved her from action, but may have gone some way in convincing a judge that she is contrite. Bit what has she done since receiving her letter?
She has tried to worm herself into the pro camp (sorry have no other word to describe it) to try and get information about certain people, when this was not forthcoming she went back to her Foundation and instead of disbanding it, she said it was business as usual and she has not desisted from libelling the McCanns, in fact, she has reiterated through her Foundation that she intends to go ahead with a series of meetings to repeat her libellous and defamatory allegations and if this wasn't bad enough, one of these ridiculous meetings is scheduled to be held very close to the McCanns village, clearly demonstrating that she (Butler) has not learned a thing from her vile hate leaflet drop and she intends to keep this Hate campaign up - So Butler, if you lose your home, then you deserve everything you get and mark my words, carry on like this and you WILL be losing your home and maybe your fitness to transport children around will also be brought into question, so your livelihood is also under threat!

As for Bennett, well what has he to loose exactly? Is he a home owner? If he is not, then this opens up a whole new can of worms, because the big loser here will be Deborah Butler!
what savings has he got? What assets? Who stands to lose the most for his libellous and defamatory comments?

Something that Ms Butler should be asking herself; We have all seen Bennett pleading poverty and hinting for donations on the 3 A's in order that he may take over the forum (lol I know), he said he did not have the money to do this, then who is paying for his legal advice? As they will NOT be eligible for legal aid, who will be paying for his court costs? (I wonder who wrote the cheque for the legal advice they have received already?)

And remember this is only the start, it is set to get worse - it could get a lot worse from here on in, and this *civil * action may turn out to be the least of their worries!

They do not seem to understand they have built their stupid leaflet hate campaign on a tissue of lies that is being contested in a Portuguese court, a judge as already issued an injunction on that book and its author, because "there is nothing to even suggest that the McCanns hurt their daughter in any way". Bennett and Butler have based their silly theories on so-called dog evidence, that is NOT even allowed in a British court of law (Or a Portuguese court), their whole reasons can be literally torn to shreds by us and we are not even libel lawyers, let alone the best libel lawyers in the country!

This gets to court and Butler and Bennett are on a lose, lose lose situation. I bet this sums up the legal advice they have received so far and I bet again Bennett is not accepting it and this is why they are going to seek a barristers advice and if he rejects that, what then? Court ? Which they will lose, because there is actually no doubt about it, they will lose, it is a clear cut case, it doesn't matter if Bennett wants to big it up with his talk of being of international or national importance, it may, or may not be, but that does NOT alter the FACT that Butler and Bennett do NOT have a proverbial leg to stand on.

Does Bennett not understand that besides what Carter Ruck have actually shown him, they have a whole shed-full of evidence and proof about what Bennett and Butler have been doing and have even carried on doing since receiving their notifications of intention? The letter to the GMC, the Foundation and the libellous comments, the incitement, the hate campaign, not to mention the leaflet campaign taken into the heart of the McCanns home and then Butler on TV and radio and in the press, stating they they intend to carry on leafleting the whole country and that they have already leafleted Germany, Spain and Portugal and then bizarrely, while in receipt of their legal letters, they actually chose to sell a book on their website which was banned from sale in Portugal because of its defamatory content towards the McCanns.

I mean what planet are these two on?........................... Planet Numpty?

But he Bennett has nothing to lose so why should he care and why should he care about losing the roof over the head of Debbie Butler's son, as long as he gets his stupid ugly face in the papers!




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I Put This on The Madeleine Foundation

Post by Rosie on Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:33 am

They won't publish it because they never publish anything I write, in fact they never publish anything unlsess it is saying yes Tony, no Tony, 3 bags full Tony and Oh look what a big brown nose I have got Tony!

Rosie Said
Are you idiots seriously thinking you know better that the best libel lawyers in the country?
Well in that case Tony and Debbie, save your money don't seek the legal advice you need from a barrister, just Google for it, or look it up Wiki as per advised on here!

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear, no wonder you are in such a frightful mess.

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Re: JOINT STATEMENT BY DEBBIE BUTLER (CHAIRMAN) AND TONY BENNETT (SECRETARY) ON LEGAL LETTERS RECEIVED FROM CARTER-RUCK

Post by rosemary on Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:56 am

It is now 2 hours after close of business on Friday 18th September and the MFoundation is still open and taking orders for the leaflet and the book.

What´s next folks?

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Re: JOINT STATEMENT BY DEBBIE BUTLER (CHAIRMAN) AND TONY BENNETT (SECRETARY) ON LEGAL LETTERS RECEIVED FROM CARTER-RUCK

Post by vee8 on Sat Sep 19, 2009 7:12 am

You know, I actually, seriously think bennett believes he will win?!? His arrogance is blinding him to the truth, he just cannot see it, he really thinks he can take on the McCann's, Carter-Ruck et all and win!
:duh:
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Re: JOINT STATEMENT BY DEBBIE BUTLER (CHAIRMAN) AND TONY BENNETT (SECRETARY) ON LEGAL LETTERS RECEIVED FROM CARTER-RUCK

Post by Guest on Sat Sep 19, 2009 7:16 am

This is what bennetts wanted all a long a chance to have his day in court, I believe he is drawing up a list of witnesses he wants subpoena Dave Edgar and Martin Grimes being amongst them what a plonker!!


Last edited by Mulleena on Sat Sep 19, 2009 7:16 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling)

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Re: JOINT STATEMENT BY DEBBIE BUTLER (CHAIRMAN) AND TONY BENNETT (SECRETARY) ON LEGAL LETTERS RECEIVED FROM CARTER-RUCK

Post by Rosie on Sat Sep 19, 2009 7:21 am

Rosemary, I think that Carter Ruck will know what to do with him and I don't expect they will be letting us in on it before they do it.
Bennett has got hold of a shovel and he doesn't know when to stop digging, so let him dig because with each shovel load he is digging a deeper hole for Butler and himself to get out of. As I said, it will probably be Butler taking the can for it because she probably has more to lose than him.
This is only the start, I keep saying this, I don't quite know how much more you expect, you do seem to have a habit of looking on the dark side of everything, I expect you are a glass half empty sort of person. Just have a little patience, all will be revealed in due course!

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Re: JOINT STATEMENT BY DEBBIE BUTLER (CHAIRMAN) AND TONY BENNETT (SECRETARY) ON LEGAL LETTERS RECEIVED FROM CARTER-RUCK

Post by Rosie on Sat Sep 19, 2009 7:31 am

vee8 wrote:You know, I actually, seriously think bennett believes he will win?!? His arrogance is blinding him to the truth, he just cannot see it, he really thinks he can take on the McCann's, Carter-Ruck et all and win!

Vee, I think he is so deluded he thinks he can beat CR! He just doesn't seem able to grasp that everything he has said, done and published is based on a tissue of lies, gossip and innuendos? It is actually quite alarming for someone who was once a solicitor.

Can you imagine him in court? NOTHING of what he thinks is the truth is even going to be allowed, because it is 'hearsay' and hearsay is inadmissible in a court of law in this country. The idiot has not grasped that to prove himself right he first has to prove that Madeleine is dead and that her parents did it, and this is impossible for him to prove, so therefore anything he has to say is just neither here nor there and he will not win and this is without all the incriminating evidence I know they have on them both!

Besides this there are other things which may happen which he will also be forced to answer to

Well he wanted his day in court, let him have it and if he thinks he will be able to quiz the McCanns in court, he is very much mistaken, yet again, the man is a plastic coated idiot!

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Re: JOINT STATEMENT BY DEBBIE BUTLER (CHAIRMAN) AND TONY BENNETT (SECRETARY) ON LEGAL LETTERS RECEIVED FROM CARTER-RUCK

Post by Guest on Sat Sep 19, 2009 8:15 am

Madeleine Foundation replies to Carter-Ruck re Dr Gerald and Dr Kate McCann
Tony Bennett Today at 7:38 pm

Letter sent today (18 September) to Carter-Ruck

From: Tony Bennett M.A.
Tel: 01279 635789
e-mail: ajsbennett@btinternet.com
66 Chippingfield
HARLOW
Essex
CM17 0DJ

Friday 18 September 2009

Carter-Ruck
International Press Centre
76 Shoe Lane
LONDON
EC4A 3JB

Your Ref: IH/DH/13837.1
For the attention of Isabel Hudson

Dear Sirs

re: Alleged libel of Dr Gerald McCann and Dr Kate McCann-Healy

Following
your letter of 27 August and my e-mail of 11 September, and yours of 15
September, I have now taken legal advice as you suggested in your
letter.

In short, the advice received is that the legal issues
involved in replying to your letter are so many and so complex that the
advice of expert counsel is needed. I am not therefore in a position to
reply in full to your letter at this time as I had hoped.

I can
say that one of the many issues which counsel will need to consider in
detail is the delay in your clients taking the action they have now
done in threatening libel proceedings.

It was as long ago as
Sunday 26 October when, in response to the setting-up of The Madeleine
Foundation website on 20 October 2008, your clients’ chief public
relations spokesman, Mr Clarence Mitchell, was reported in The People
newspaper as saying, and I quote his words directly from the article:
“Our lawyers are watching him. They are constantly monitoring his
claims, which we consider are libellous”.

So, even before 26
October, nearly 11 months ago, your clients’ lawyers believed that some
of my claims (or those on The Madeleine Foundation website) were
‘libellous’.

Furthermore, the enclosed letter was sent to your
firm on 27 October under a Certificate of Posting, which we hold, from
Madeleine Foundation Chairman Debbie Butler. Virtually identical
letters were also sent direct to your clients, to their co-ordinating
lawyer Edward Smethurst, and to Mr Clarence Mitchell. That letter
clearly advised your clients that we were content to remove or amend
any statement on our website which they could demonstrate to be untrue.
That remains true to this day.

Our book: “What Really Happened to Madeleine McCann?” was published on 7 December 2007, over nine months ago.

I
am advised therefore that your demands for an immediate response have
to be weighed against your clients’ inaction to date, despite your
clients having purportedly identified material as libellous before 26
October 2008. Clearly your clients having delayed action for so long
must allow me to take reasonable steps to deal with the many requests
and legal issues within your 27 August letter.

I need to inform
you that tomorrow (19 September) I begin a pre-booked holiday in this
country until 1 October. I shall then be out of the country from 7 to
16 October taking my Zagreb-born 89-year-old mother on a pre-booked
trip to Austria, again booked before 27 August, which was triggered by
a most unfortunate family tragedy when a close relative, film-maker
Gerhard Friedl, committed suicide in July. My mother will be visiting
and staying with his family. On both occasions I shall of course be
unable to deal with correspondence and on each occasion I shall not be
in internet contact. Please ensure that Adam Tudor makes very careful
note of that. Should you require proof that both holidays were booked
prior to 27 August, I can supply that.

It is very possible that
I will not be able to see and consider counsel’s advice before leaving
the country on 7 October. Given the complex nature of the legal issues
at stake, from which I am sure your firm would not dissent, and taking
into account your clients’ long delay in taking any action about the
contents of either our website or our book, my Solicitor considers it
would be reasonable to ask you to wait until, say, one week after
Friday 16 October, in order to be able to reply fully to your letter.

I
note your e-mail of 15 September in which you give me until 18
September to furnish you with a ‘substantive reply’. You quoted the
‘Pre-Action Protocol for Defamation’ which you showed me for the first
time by e-mail attachment on 15 September. You completely failed to
notify me of this Protocol, as you should have done, when you first
wrote your letter to me on behalf of the McCanns on 27 August.

It
is a matter entirely for you and your clients if you decide now to
instruct barristers to draft particulars of claim, writs etc. because
this letter does not contain a substantive response to your clients’
demands. However, I can be certain that should this matter proceed to a
court hearing, the court would take into account issues of
proportionality and fairness in deciding whether you had waited a
reasonable period for a response.

Factors that the court would
undoubtedly take into account, notwithstanding the two week period
mentioned in the Pre-Action Protocol for Defamation, include:

1) Your delay of over 10 months between the publication of our website and writing to me

2)
Your delay of exactly 10 months between the letter sent to you, the
McCanns, Clarence Mitchell and two other of the McCanns’ lawyers by
Debbie Butler on 27 October 2008 and your letter of 27 August 2009

3)
Your and your clients’ failure to take any steps to complain about any
of the specific contents of either the website or the booklet to me or
to Ms Butler despite specific offers to withdraw or amend any
statements in them that your clients could demonstrate to be untrue

4)
The question of why, if your clients claim, as they do, in your letter
of 27 August, that ‘the publication of the allegations complained of
self-evidently ‘threaten very serious harm to our clients’ reputations’
they did not act immediately to injunct the website and booklet and
apply for them to be, respectively, taken down and pulped at the
outset. If they had done, they could have avoided the damage they say
has since been done by hundreds of thousands of people visiting our
website and reading our booklet

5) The gross imbalance between
your clients who are wealthy enough to be able (several times) to hire
the country’s top libel lawyers - and myself, whose annual income is
below the tax threshold

6) The holidays, that I can demonstrate
have both been pre-booked, which will seriously interfere with my or my
Solicitor’s ability to respond within the 14-day period mentioned in
the Pre-Action Protocol

7) The undoubted complexity of the legal
issues involved in this particular and unique case which in all
fairness you must concede justifies a further delay whilst a
barrister’s opinion is sought - you yourselves know the complexity of
the issues.

I turn now in addition to the following relevant extracts from the Pre-Action Protocol for Defamation, which you sent.

First,
regarding the 14-day period you have given me for reply, you made no
mention of this in your initial letter received on 1 September 2009.
You should have done.

Second, in your further letter dated 16
September, you say: “The 14-day period is the period prescribed by the
Pre-Action Protocol for Defamation”. That is untrue and I believe a
deliberate misrepresentation of the Pre-Action Protocol. Given that
your website claims that you are ‘the most feared libel lawyers in the
U.K.’, you have a responsibility not to mislead those to whom you are
writing, and here the Professional Code of Conduct for Solicitors is
relevant. Principle 17.01: ‘Fairness’ states: “Solicitors must not act,
whether in a professional capacity or otherwise, towards anyone in a
way which is deceitful…”. I regard your statement that the 14 days is
‘prescribed’ as deceitful as you know it is not ‘prescribed’.

Indeed, the Protocol states the following, inter alia:

a)
“If the Defendant believes that s/he will be unable to respond within
14 days, then s/he should specify the date by which s/he intends to
respond”. That is what I am doing by this letter

b) “The
[Defendant’s] Response should include whether more information is
required…If more information is required [by the Defendant], then the
Defendant should specify precisely what information is needed to enable
the claim to be dealt with and why”. I do require further information
and this is set out below.

c) Paragraph 1.5 notes that the
overriding objective’ is to ‘deal with a case justly’ and the Protocol
goes on to define several relevant considerations, including the
following which seem to me to apply very much in this particular case:

(i)
ensuring that the parties are on an equal footing [clearly they are not
at the moment since Adam Tudor is reported to on a sizeable monthly
retainer for advising the McCanns on libel issues and the McCanns can
afford to instruct the most feared libel lawyers in the land
(ii) dealing with the case in ways that are ‘proportionate’
(iii) the importance of the case [given its international significance, that must be a factor in this case]
(iv) the ‘complexity of the issues’, and
(v) ‘the financial position of each party’ (see point (c) (i) above).

You
did not mention any 14-day ‘response time' in your initial letter, as
you should have done, and when you did mention it you claimed it was a
‘prescribed’ time limit when on perusal of the Protocol it clearly is
not. I shall therefore be reporting your conduct to the Solicitors
Regulation Authority.

Information needed

As is manifest
form Paragraphs 3.4 and 3.5 of the Code, it is clear that I have the
right to ask for reasonable information before considering my
substantive response and my legal options.

The information I and my Solicitor require is not much. It is simply this:

Why,
after Debbie Butler wrote to you, to the McCanns themselves, to
Clarence Mitchell and two other sets of the McCann’s many lawyers on 27
October, did you leave it until 27 August 2009 to write a letter
claiming that our website, launched on 20 October 2008 and our booklet,
published on 7 December 2009, ‘threatened very serious harm to our
clients’ reputations”.

The Pre-Action Protocol is crystal clear:
“In particular, time is of the essence in defamation claims…almost
invariably, a Claimant will be seeking an immediate correction and/or
apology as part of the process of restoring his/her reputation”.

The
information I seek is this: I want to know why your clients delayed
over 10 months from the launch of our website before they instructed
you to write your letter of 27 August.

I think there can be only two reasons:

Either:
(a) you advised them at the time (after all, Adam Tudor appears to have
been on a monthly retainer from the McCanns for some considerable time)
that, having regard to the Pre-Action Protocol, they should sue
immediately for defamation, but for whatever reason they refused to
take your advice,

Or: (b) you failed to advise them of Paragraph
1.4 of the Pre-Action Protocol and the overriding need to act quickly
if anyone think their reputation is being tarnished. The Protocol is
plain: “Time is always [not sometimes] ‘of the essence”.

Please
convey your clients’ explanation for not acting sooner to restore what
they claim caused ‘serious harm’ to their reputation, but instead
waiting for over 10 months to write to me, as soon as convenient.

In
addition, as you will have seen from yesterday’s letter, I have taken
legal advice on the other letter you have sent me about your clients
Brian and Patrick Kennedy and have been able to furnished you with a
substantive reply which I think meets all your clients demands. That
was for two reasons: (1) the legal issues were far less complex and (2)
your client’s demands were far less extensive in that case.

I am
in no way ducking or delaying a reply and as soon as I have further
legal advice regarding your clients’ demands, I or my Solicitor will
reply in full and substantively.

I am willing to undertake
therefore that either my Solicitor or I will respond in full to your
letter of 27 August on or before Friday 23 October.

Given

(a) your failure to inform me initially of the existence of the Pre-Action Protocol,
(b) the misleading information you gave me subsequently about it,
(c)
that Paragraph 1.5 of the Pre-Action Protocol gives a number of
situations where a response in 14 days may not be practicable, and
(d) given that from tomorrow I shall be absent on pre-booked holidays for 21 out of the next 26 days,

I
consider that an undertaking by me to reply no later than by 23 October
meets the critieria in the Pre-Action Protocol and I suggest that, if
proceedings are commenced by your prior to that date, a court would
find my request not unreasonable in the very peculiar circumstances of
this case.

If we are practically able to reply sooner, we will.

I
wish also to correct a further inaccuracy I have noted on page 2 of
your letter. The final paragraph of your letter states: “…you recently
chose to plumb new depths by posting leaflets to residents of the
village in which our clients live with their children”. I must inform
you that I have never ‘posted’ or delivered or distributed any of the
‘10 Reasons’ leaflets nor indeed any other information or leaflet about
Madeleine to anyone in Rothley. You need to withdraw that claim from
your letter.

Finally, a Mrs Brenda Ryan, a former owner of the
3Arguidos Forum which you mention in your original letter, has asked me
to covey the following information to you:

QUOTE:

I need
to make my position very clear. I have no control over the 3Arguidos
site. I am not still in a position to have a say over the postings that
you referred to in your letter to Carter-Ruck. I do not have a copy of
the database and neither do I have any access rights to the database. I
had no access to the database prior to the 3Arguidos going down and
before I left. I never had access to the server side of things or the
capability to back up the database. Please inform Carter Ruck that I
was not the owner of 3Arguidos after 28th May 2009 (the date being
prior to your postings about the Kennedys in July), and that I was not
even an administrator when they wrote to you on 27th August. I merely
forwarded you the e-mail address of ‘BeoWulf’ [the current owner]. I
have no control over the 3Arguidos, its database or whether it would
ever come back on the internet.

UNQUOTE

Yours sincerely

Tony Bennett

ENC. Letter of 27 October 2008 from Ms Debbie Butler, Chairman of The Madeleine Foundation, to Carter-Ruck

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Re: JOINT STATEMENT BY DEBBIE BUTLER (CHAIRMAN) AND TONY BENNETT (SECRETARY) ON LEGAL LETTERS RECEIVED FROM CARTER-RUCK

Post by Rosie on Sat Sep 19, 2009 8:34 am

Bennett has seriously lost the plot, I cannot quite believe this, but yes, he definitely is trying to teach Carter Ruck libel laws.

Oh dear, I would just about say that now, he has just booked himself a court appearance.

See you in court Debs and Tone, I for one will be attending!

_________________
no way
Goncalo Amaral Your Time Is Nearly Up!


"RICARDO PAIVA SHOULD RESIGN, HIS POSITION IS UNTENABLE - IF HE DOES NOT RESIGN, THEN SACK HIM!
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Re: JOINT STATEMENT BY DEBBIE BUTLER (CHAIRMAN) AND TONY BENNETT (SECRETARY) ON LEGAL LETTERS RECEIVED FROM CARTER-RUCK

Post by calcite51 on Sat Sep 19, 2009 8:43 am

And Rosiepops, you will be keeping us to date on all the happenings? I suspect Tony's family and Debs' as well will be getting a well deserved break from those two.....
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Re: JOINT STATEMENT BY DEBBIE BUTLER (CHAIRMAN) AND TONY BENNETT (SECRETARY) ON LEGAL LETTERS RECEIVED FROM CARTER-RUCK

Post by rosemary on Sat Sep 19, 2009 8:44 am

Rosie I do have the utmost faith in Carter Ruck. No worries there. (Although it´s quite true I am a half a glass empty sort of a person!) But I am very interested in the global legalities of this case though and wonder what is the likely scenario if TB caves in and goes quiet and gets slapped and says sorry (although it may well be too late for all that now!) but then turns up somewhere else later on from a website in Spain or Portugal or the US with the same agenda under another name.
We are seeing a precedent regarding international laws of incitement and defamation, especially with regard to the Internet aren´t we?
Believe me Rosie I am not pessimistic about Carter Ruck, quite the contrary. I am just trying to fast forward into the future because there are always going to be evil doers out there, even if TB and Butler are carried off tomorrow. For me anyway this whole issue is not about them. It´s much more interesting than that. I think it has to do with how one protects the individual from trial by internet.
But you are right. Let´s wait and see how things pan out. Can´t wait for the next instalment!

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Re: JOINT STATEMENT BY DEBBIE BUTLER (CHAIRMAN) AND TONY BENNETT (SECRETARY) ON LEGAL LETTERS RECEIVED FROM CARTER-RUCK

Post by calcite51 on Sat Sep 19, 2009 8:55 am

CR sure know how to spoil a holiday - how can Tony enjoy these two holidays when he's in so much legal trouble?? If I had been Tony, I think I would have cancelled my holiday.
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Re: JOINT STATEMENT BY DEBBIE BUTLER (CHAIRMAN) AND TONY BENNETT (SECRETARY) ON LEGAL LETTERS RECEIVED FROM CARTER-RUCK

Post by rosemary on Sat Sep 19, 2009 8:56 am

Have just now read his latest letter. Extraordinary arrogance, breathtaking. What now I wonder.

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Re: JOINT STATEMENT BY DEBBIE BUTLER (CHAIRMAN) AND TONY BENNETT (SECRETARY) ON LEGAL LETTERS RECEIVED FROM CARTER-RUCK

Post by vee8 on Sat Sep 19, 2009 9:16 am

rosemary wrote:Have just now read his latest letter. Extraordinary arrogance, breathtaking. What now I wonder.

In other words, you can all bl**dy well wait untill I'm good and ready to answer you, and not before! The man's arrogance is simply breathtaking, isn't it?!
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Re: JOINT STATEMENT BY DEBBIE BUTLER (CHAIRMAN) AND TONY BENNETT (SECRETARY) ON LEGAL LETTERS RECEIVED FROM CARTER-RUCK

Post by Guest on Sat Sep 19, 2009 9:27 am

The defence of a limerick

There was a young lady called Gaynor
Who aspired to be a personal trainer
But she wanted much more
And soon switched to law
On hearing the size of Adam Tudor's retainer



Penned by Bennett and posted on MM forum not long ago.
He may as well laugh while he can afford to, not sure butler will be laughing alongside him though somehow.
Still i have a two man tent she can have if needs must!!

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