Justice 4 ALL Madeleine McCann Family
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THE WORD LEAK...

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THE WORD LEAK...

Post by Guest on Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:03 am

Every time I hear it, just as with the word arguido, it reminds me of Portugal and the tragic case of Madeleine McCann. I actually feel embarassed for Portugal as there have been so many leaks, it is now impossible to defend or respect their secrecy laws. The conduct of those in power and the lack of action from the very same people, when the media of their country get into a feeding frenzy about this case and leak on the titanic scale they have, is truly shocking and unforgiveable. :( :( :( :(

The Portuguese media are experts at leaking from unnamed sources (which could mean any Tom, Dick or Harry) or from an unnamed source 'close' to the investigation - not that that is a criteria :face:

Then we have the leaking of information from pj arguidos who are not innocent arguidos, but have been charged by a Portuguese court of law and are now awaiting trail. One has written a slanted/tainted book on the case and the other is on the side lines doing the same and salivating at the prospect of how much money he will make as a consequence. affraid affraid affraid

Then you have the conspiracy theorists, who don't need any news at all, who create myths and legends from anything, such an innocent photograph, to a passage from the bible and low and behold, this is soon accepted by similarly demented types as a fact. :geek: :geek: :geek:

Not to mention the likes of Alsabella, whose hairdresser knew someone who knew someone, who talked to Mrs Fenn. :shock: :shock: :shock:

I have only touched on the topic as an introductory post.

The topic, however, is endless.

As are the leaks

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Chinadoll

Post by dianeh on Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:19 am

Hi there.

I agree. If our police force (Aust) leaked like the PJ,heads would roll. Like the British police, the Aust police (in all states as well as the Federal Police) keep the public abreast of what is going on, holding back that which is crucial to the case. As such, there is not a lot of room for leaks, smears etc.

I dont know if you have heard about Tony Mokbel. He was just extradited from Greece, where he fled after escaping. He was convicted on drug charges and is also to stand trial for murder. He maintains that he cant get a fair hearing in Aust, which may be true but then it is hard to get off, when you are in fact guilty (not saying he is mind you) or if the police have very strong, good evidence, which is believed to be the case. It is very high profile, as it is part of a series of underworld killings and a tv show has been made. The tv show is banned in Victoria until after all the cases (and there are a few) which are dealt with in the tv show have been fully resolved. That shows how serious these things are taken here. The problem with the tv show is that it portrays Mokbel as being responsible for the murders (even though he didnt pull the trigger for all or maybe for any of them), but such things are thought to prejudice juries.

Yet in Portugal, we are seeing the opposite, where books and a supposed tv series are allowed, that clearly libel the McCanns, pretending to portray the truth, even if not the truth, most people that watch it will believe it to be true, always happens, are allowed to go ahead, with no thought at all for prejudicing any potential jury, including if the actual abductor is found and brought to trial. It is truly bizarre.

Secrecy orders imposed to protect 'evidence' and the investigation but speculation, leaks, smears etc, running rampant through the community, with no denials from the PJ, except where their own name is being sullied. Truly disgraceful, and try as I might, I cant see how the secrecy and the smears, and leaks are going to result in justice.

In fact, I think what has happened in the McCanns case shows the danger of the secrecy laws, as it fosters a culture of lies and smears and hides the true nature of the investigation, removing the accountability of the PJ and the prosecutors. The PJ have not found any trace of Madeleine, and one would argue that the lack of accountability and openness, has been a significant component of the PJ's failure to find her.
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Excellent post again Dianeh

Post by Guest on Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:57 am

Your following observation is particularly pertinent imo:-

Secrecy orders imposed to protect 'evidence' and the investigation but speculation, leaks, smears etc, running rampant through the community, with no denials from the PJ, except where their own name is being sullied. Truly disgraceful, and try as I might, I cant see how the secrecy and the smears, and leaks are going to result in justice.

In fact, I think what has happened in the McCanns case shows the danger of the secrecy laws, as it fosters a culture of lies and smears and hides the true nature of the investigation, removing the accountability of the PJ and the prosecutors. The PJ have not found any trace of Madeleine, and one would argue that the lack of accountability and openness, has been a significant component of the PJ's failure to find her.

...............................................................................................

Yet we have so many eVile types that are baying for their blood, who want to stab them in the back, day in day out - as if they are not suffering enough. :x :x :x

They are being encouraged by the way the pj are dragging this investigation on and on and on, with no signs of any progress whatsoever.

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Chinadoll

Post by dianeh on Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:48 am

Your post raises the very valid point about the few members of the public 'baying for the blood of the McCanns'.

It is the secrecy laws themselves that have created this situation. With neither the PJ nor the McCanns allowed to make statements regarding the case, to the press, the 'members of the public' are left to make their own interpretation based on lies and spurious leaked information given to the Portuguese press. Even where the leaks are outright lies (as opposed to twisted truths), the PJ have not come forward to deny that the information is true, as this breaks the secrecy laws. And the poor misguided souls (being very nice tonight, arent I) who believe these lies, as not being given the opportunity to evaluate them for what they are.

I dont know if everything leaked is false, but I can only take my cue from what has been proven to be false due to statements from the witnesses direct to British Press, or the FSS, or the British Police, let alone what the McCanns and their friends have said. So I know that at least some of what has been leaked is false. That leads me, and most normal people to believe that much, or all of what has been leaked is also false.

It is just a great pity that some others in the community are unable to make that same decision. It is incomprehensible to me that when dealing with proven liars that one doesnt just automatically assume that the liar will continue to lie. That is natural. And that is what the anti's have done with the McCanns. The anti's beleive them to be liars (for a number of reasons), yet some of the accusations of lies comes from leaks that have since been proven to be lies (at least the majority of things, DNA, timings, witness statements etc etc). How can any right minded person believe the McCanns to be liars based upon proven lies coming from 'sources close to the PJ;?
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Re: THE WORD LEAK...

Post by Tinkerbell43 on Sat Jun 07, 2008 7:45 am

Diane, I agree, the Secrecy laws have created this situation and the PJ have imo used and abused them to serve their own purpose. There is no doubt in my mind the leaks have been co-ordinated and selective/favoured journalists have been used.

I think Antonio Pinto was correct when he allegedly said that the Judicial Secrecy Laws are not there to protect negligence or to conceal the lack of progress, because imo that is exactly what they have been used for!.

We were lead to believe from day one, that they could not issue information on the investigation because of strict Secrecy Laws which meant they could give no direct appeal for help or issue a clear description of Madeleine. I have since found out, that there is a provision for the rule to be broken if the public is in danger or if media reports need to be corrected. These 2 exceptions could have applied to Madeleines case.

A Portuguese legal expert ihas been reported as having said there were grounds for using either or both exceptions allowing the police to fully involve the press and the public in the search!

How many more blunders have there been that we do not know about 🤡 Who's arse is being covered :?:

This little girls life depended on them and imo they have let her down badly. If they had done the job right from the start, who knows Madeleine may well have been found. 🇳🇴

Its scandalous and someones head needs to roll over this. I know whose fat, lardy head I would start with! :suspect: :suspect: :suspect:
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Leaks

Post by Mandz on Sun Jun 08, 2008 8:58 pm

Tinks I agree!

IMO the leaks appear co-ordinated and on cue. Take for example the leaks in the newspapers that stated “the parents killed their child”. “McCann’s sedated their children”.

The McCann’s went on record re this stating they had been assured by the police that they believed Maddie was abducted then the next few weeks other stories were coming out like sedated, buried in Spain etc At one point the McCann’s were going to sue a newspaper for these stories then the next thing they were made suspects and that they (police) believe the McCann’s harmed their child etc just what the newspapers were reporting. Also the head of the police (can’t remember his name!) went on record to say that there were leaks from his junior member of staff however as usual no action taken.
They appear above and beyond the law in my opinion. They have picked on this couple who left their children which does not go down well with people therefore easy target in my opinion much easier to sway public opinion.
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Re: THE WORD LEAK...

Post by clairesy on Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:21 pm

Every leak to the press as strangely coincided with something the mccanns are doing positive to draw attention the case.
Right back in the begining the pj made them arguidos to shut them up,silence them...stop them in their tracks and swing public opinions.The mccans are too much of a challenge for the pj...their determination to keep this case hight profile as proved a success and the pj are in panic mode with the way things are.They probably thought the case would be like other missing cases....only in the news for a short while and then sadly slowly diminishing from the minds of people.But every dog as its day and for the pj i think the mccanns have proved too much for them.

After failing to silence the as much as they wanted with declaring them arguidos they then start the odd convenient leak to the press aimed to blacken their names etc.Their latest trip to Brussels is a classic example where the mccanns were aiming to make front page headlines worldwide yet again with the amber alert campaign..... and most importantly to them right now.... get Madeleine's face yet again splashed acroos every paper.
BUT instead the pj stepped in the very day they were being televised with the campaign with the twisted news that little madeleine had been cross with kate the hours before she disappeared and asked why they hadn't come to them when they cried the night before.
A cruel way with words ensured it hit the headlines and kate and gerrys amber alert campaign took a back seat. So instead of the public being supportive of k&g they were saddened and some even angered by the way the mccanns had ignored her plees with them.

Although as we all know madeleine wasn't cross, and her question to her parents was not said as a plee or a demand to where they were. It was as kate said ...a passing statement she had made over breakfast and no more.

Everything the pj as done in this case as been for a reason...and I don't mean to help.....I mean to hinder this case.
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Clairesy

Post by Tinkerbell43 on Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:43 pm

Agree with everything you have said. I think the McCanns have been nothing but honest and this particular leak proves, even though it was meant to damage them, they told the PJ everything. It would have been far easier to have not said anything if they were trying to protect themselves, nobody would have been none the wiser.

I think the PJ underestimated this family, and I'm glad they remain a thorn in the PJ's side. Cant wait to see the files!!! Whats the betting they try and find a loop hole so that they are never made public! Wouldn't put anything past this shower. Sad thing is none of this helps Madeleine. 😢
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the worst possible scenario

Post by helenm on Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:09 pm

Would be that the files are never released from the judicial secrecy laws that surround them, IMO. I fear that this is where this investigation is heading. IMO the recent leaks regarding charging the Mccann's with neglect is another weak attempt to put pressure on them. A game of tit for tat, which started very early on in the investigation when the Portuguese journalists retaliated with the story that Gerry Mccann was not the biological father of Madeleine, in answer to the Mccann family commenting on the professionalism and competency of the PJ.

This is not a game though, Madeleine is still missing. However, IMO the Mccann's have laid down the gauntlet (so to speak) and said 'game on', get on with it, do the job you are employed to do, that is LOOK for Madeleine, because if you're not committed in doing just that their are others willing and able to do the job.
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Leaks

Post by Shingle on Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:43 am

The leaks from the PJ started in the first few hours and a smear campaign was initiated early on too.

What the PJ did not expect was the fight back by this family would totally show the uselessness of a police force. I wonder too what would have happened to Kate and Gerry if the profile of this case had not have been raised so quickly....what they would have looked like after questioning if no one had of known them and the words media was not camped out in PDL.

Given that the fat controller put in charge of the case from day one has a tendency to let his suspects throw themselves down stairs it does make you wonder.

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Re: THE WORD LEAK...

Post by kateno.51 on Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:22 am

Tinkerbell43 wrote:Agree with everything you have said. I think the McCanns have been nothing but honest and this particular leak proves, even though it was meant to damage them, they told the PJ everything. It would have been far easier to have not said anything if they were trying to protect themselves, nobody would have been none the wiser.

I think the PJ underestimated this family, and I'm glad they remain a thorn in the PJ's side. Cant wait to see the files!!! Whats the betting they try and find a loop hole so that they are never made public! Wouldn't put anything past this shower. Sad thing is none of this helps Madeleine. 😢

Oh I think the pj were in for a big surprise when they discovered Kate and Gerry MEANT every word of *We Will Leave No Stone Unturned*. Bet you Amaral's demented 🐷 . I think HE should be investigated. A good plumber's what he needs to stop the leaks. And that other one who's written the two books. Someone should be investigating him too, to think that he's in charge of Missing Children in Portugal. BTW joana Morais's father is Jorge Nuno de Lima Pinto da Costa, President of Portuguese football club Porto. Sorry about this last sentence, it's completely wrong. And there is no resemblence what so ever between the two either.


Last edited by kateno.51 on Sat Jun 21, 2008 4:59 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : wrong informnation)

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Dianeh

Post by Guest on Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:03 am

dianeh wrote:Your post raises the very valid point about the few members of the public 'baying for the blood of the McCanns'.

It is the secrecy laws themselves that have created this situation. With neither the PJ nor the McCanns allowed to make statements regarding the case, to the press, the 'members of the public' are left to make their own interpretation based on lies and spurious leaked information given to the Portuguese press. Even where the leaks are outright lies (as opposed to twisted truths), the PJ have not come forward to deny that the information is true, as this breaks the secrecy laws. And the poor misguided souls (being very nice tonight, arent I) who believe these lies, as not being given the opportunity to evaluate them for what they are.

I dont know if everything leaked is false, but I can only take my cue from what has been proven to be false due to statements from the witnesses direct to British Press, or the FSS, or the British Police, let alone what the McCanns and their friends have said. So I know that at least some of what has been leaked is false. That leads me, and most normal people to believe that much, or all of what has been leaked is also false.

It is just a great pity that some others in the community are unable to make that same decision. It is incomprehensible to me that when dealing with proven liars that one doesnt just automatically assume that the liar will continue to lie. That is natural. And that is what the anti's have done with the McCanns. The anti's beleive them to be liars (for a number of reasons), yet some of the accusations of lies comes from leaks that have since been proven to be lies (at least the majority of things, DNA, timings, witness statements etc etc). How can any right minded person believe the McCanns to be liars based upon proven lies coming from 'sources close to the PJ;?

Once again Diane, some excellent observations and points here.

Firstly the double standards of the pj and their selective use of their secrecy laws. The majority of the detrimental leaks have come directly from the pj - do you remember the article in the Daily Mail (I think) where it reported that they all used to meet up at some licensed cafe, indeed, it was used as a type of informal press briefing room and sources in/close to the pj would brief the local reporters, who in turn would pass their information on to other news outlets? The DX group of newspapers got a great many of their stories via this route. Then we have the former officials that did not mind giving their views on national tv along with shrinks and the rest of the Portuguese bandwagon - all aimed at putting pressure on this family, with the intent imo of breaking them. When I say breaking them, I feel there was a definite belief in Portugal, that they were guilty of unintentionally harming their daughter (at the very least) and disposing of her body. It was a concerted/organised campaign of convincing all and sundry of their guilt. Remember the alleged masses of Madeleines hair which were supposedly found in the boot of the hire car, not to mention the body fluids and cadaver dog evidence. They sure got excited about that and their lack of training and understanding of complex forensic analysis and what sort of evidence can stand alone in a court of law, led them imo to jump to conclusions. As you rightly say Dianeh, others were waiting with baited breath and ready to mop up each and every morsel of lies that were printed.

Then you have the myths that were created on forums to add to the already putrid mix and low and behold the baying mob find them guilty of all accusations - even accusations that the pj have not made, such as the sick types posted by the likes of Ecolab on the Vile blog.

You are so right when you say that some people simply do not seem to have the capacity to question the myths and lies, even when clearly, that can be all they are. I still keep reading posts about the evidence found in the car, yet instead of asking why the lcn dna technique is being used and realising that there could not have been the evidence that was leaked, they just go on and on and on with their insane speculation, based on equally insane facts and theories.

It is one thing to be an arguido (a person of interest to the investigation) but no, that is not enough for the baying mob. They are Prime Suspects, Main Suspects and every other exaggeration they can think of. They question what Kate elects to wear, her make-up & jewellery. They think they have no right to go to Strasbourg and campaign for the Amber Alert Scheme or to take a simple family holiday. Who the hell do these people think they are? The McCanns owe them nothing, not so much as an explanation. What they do in their private lives, is their own business and is enshrined by European Law. Personally, I think a lot of these types are quite simply jealous and I mean jealous with a capital J. Others want them punished for their class and status in society and seem to think that they should be made an example of. An example of what?

That leads us to the issue of neglect and peoples perception of what they regard as bad parenting ie the acceptability of what they did during the course of that fateful holiday. This is probably the most talked about issue and some people seem to view/approach it as their very own mini campaign to stop this sort of thing happening again. The 'acceptability' of what they did is irrelevant - only the legal interpretation of what is acceptable in the eyes of the law is of relevance here. We all, daily, make moral judgements according to our own acceptabilities. Some people will not purchase products that are tested on animals, others will not have sex prior to marriage, or do not believe in abortion etc etc etc. People have a myriad of beliefs and views on what is acceptable. None of these opinion/moral judgements count in the eyes of the law and it is the law and only the law that can make a ruling on same.

As the McCanns have neither been charged, let alone convicted then other peoples opinions are just that - a reflection of what they believe in and what is acceptable or not to them, depending on their own prejudices. They are purely the individuals moral judgements which have no place in law.
Imagine you are on a jury and you are asked to make a decision in a rape case, in which the female had danced provocatively with the accused at a nightclub. She also comes over as a bit of a slag. Nevertheless, she spurned the advances of the accused and he raped her. You might not like her moral fibre or conduct, but the judge will surely direct you to ignore your view on same and to make a decision based on her right to say no and not to be raped.

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Chinadoll

Post by dianeh on Thu Jun 19, 2008 9:51 am

What a great post!!!!!

Well said. I agree with you 100%.
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Clarence Mitchell/McCanns:The Gloves are off!

Post by Guest on Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:47 am


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Here is a quote taken from Anorak today

Post by Guest on Sun Jul 20, 2008 8:06 pm

SUNDAY HERALD: “Courts make editors think hard before delving into private lives - Judiciary increasingly taking the view that public interest must be stronger than potential harm”

Although Madeleine McCann “aguido” Robert Murat’s £600,000 payout last week from 11 newspapers after successfully suing for the separate offence of defamation, editors are being forcefully reminded to think longer and harder about what stories papers can and should run.

INDEED. A current story in Correio da Manha has not repeated in the UK press about the case.

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Re: THE WORD LEAK...

Post by Guest on Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:32 am

Mum21 wrote:SUNDAY HERALD: “Courts make editors think hard before delving into private lives - Judiciary increasingly taking the view that public interest must be stronger than potential harm”

Although Madeleine McCann “aguido” Robert Murat’s £600,000 payout last week from 11 newspapers after successfully suing for the separate offence of defamation, editors are being forcefully reminded to think longer and harder about what stories papers can and should run.

INDEED. A current story in Correio da Manha has not repeated in the UK press about the case.

I read a translation of that disgusting article and am pleased to note that it has not been given any air time or newspaper space over here, as it was evil trash, pure and simple.

I agree that editors need to act more responsibly when vetting what is to be published - more so when considering repeating/reprinting some of the garbage that spews from the Portuguese media.
I hope that continues to be the case over the coming weeks and months. From what I understand, it is not at all financially lucrative to persue libel proceedings in Portugal (yet no doubt expensive) hence some of their gutter media seem unafraid of publishing such disgusting articles as referred to above.

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Re: THE WORD LEAK...

Post by Rosie on Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:39 am

Chinadoll wrote:
Mum21 wrote:SUNDAY HERALD: “Courts make editors think hard before delving into private lives - Judiciary increasingly taking the view that public interest must be stronger than potential harm”

Although Madeleine McCann “aguido” Robert Murat’s £600,000 payout last week from 11 newspapers after successfully suing for the separate offence of defamation, editors are being forcefully reminded to think longer and harder about what stories papers can and should run.

INDEED. A current story in Correio da Manha has not repeated in the UK press about the case.

I read a translation of that disgusting article and am pleased to note that it has not been given any air time or newspaper space over here, as it was evil trash, pure and simple.

I agree that editors need to act more responsibly when vetting what is to be published - more so when considering repeating/reprinting some of the garbage that spews from the Portuguese media.
I hope that continues to be the case over the coming weeks and months. From what I understand, it is not at all financially lucrative to pursue libel proceedings in Portugal (yet no doubt expensive) hence some of their gutter media seem unafraid of publishing such disgusting articles as referred to above.

These are my thoughts exactly! I was very pleased that our press used their self regulatory powers and did not go in for sensationalistic journalism by repeating the filthy trash in that comic 'Correio da Manha' last week and I hope we see some responsible reporting when the case files gradually become known.

Now the McCann's have had their arguido status lifted, they will be free to pursue these libellous odious creeps that hang about blogs and forums repeating libellous comments and other utter filth, their time is coming!

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