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FIND MADDIE AUSSIE

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Re: FIND MADDIE AUSSIE

Post by clairesy on Sun Aug 09, 2009 8:16 am

AlexG wrote:
clairesy wrote:

or this is a false lead!

I would go for false lead ....

me to alex...but im still hoping it isnt.I just cant get my head around the convo part.Dum woman hey...all that cash for a kid and then she messes up at last minuit......... surly she was given strict instructions by the folk who were delivering child ??

and if her boat was in the dock(if it is her boat) then why the need to meet on land???More people walking around that marina would have ment more chance of seeing someone passing over a child at 2 am??

im praying this is a breakthrough i really am.But im not going to hold my hopes to high.Not just yet anyway....lets wait a few days or so..see whats to come
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Re: FIND MADDIE AUSSIE

Post by rosemary on Sun Aug 09, 2009 8:45 am

And talking of cell phones....as I mentioned last night, where was this womanīs cell phone??!! If you are meeting a stranger at a bar at 2am wouldnīt you keep in touch by cell phone? Odd I thought-

Tarot cards.

Yes, they are very precious to me and I do readings sometimes but only for family and friends and yes, I believe I have a guide, maybe more than one depending on my mood and the situation.

I did one today for Madeleine and because I believe my guides would be happy to share it I will tell you what transpired. I think we are all a bit heartsick and apprehensive and weīve all been deeply affected by what has happened since Maddie was taken. So it is allowed.
Looking at them now I am amazed. They are wonderful.

I chose 7 cards. I did NOT wish to ask the cards if Maddie was still with us or had moved on to another realm. And I have no timeline. They told me of the following:

An end soon to a enterprise involving a great deal of intense hard work.
An end to a long period of tension and anxiety
An end to the reign of power for a dark lady. A journey of sorrow but a new beginning for her.
A lot of movement and journeying and travel by air.
Madeleine has been in comfortable surroundings, very pleasant with all material comforts and although a solemn child she has been enjoying a new phase of development.

The final card I drew was the finest some would say in the whole pack. It was The World, a card of great happiness, completion and joy.

So my friends there it is and all I can say is it filled my heart with joy. When, or even if, it will all come to this end I do not know. All I know is that my cards are good to me and I respect what they say and of course we all live with hope.

Goodnight all.

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Re: FIND MADDIE AUSSIE

Post by AlexG on Sun Aug 09, 2009 8:57 am

.


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Re: FIND MADDIE AUSSIE

Post by calcite51 on Sun Aug 09, 2009 9:02 am

I'm hoping and praying Rosemary that your Tarot reading is correct - I know people who swear by Tarot.
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Re: FIND MADDIE AUSSIE

Post by dianeh on Sun Aug 09, 2009 9:41 am

Claire

ON the conversation. If this woman was receiving a new daughter via illegal adoption, then it is doubtful she has any experience in this, would be nervous and could have said anything.

Meeting at sea. Far more dangerous than meeting on land, much harder to find them at sea (there are no street corners etc), and if you find the police by mistake, you are stuffed. Also, I am not sure that Madeleine (or other child) would have been brought by sea, and left by sea. I suspect it is one or the other. I also have been think as to why meet in amongst the crowd, and I doubt that the child would have been handed over there. I think they were meeting her there and not somewhere more secluded, to ensure that there were no police. Perhaps the docks have full security cameras etc, then it would be easy to track them down. But meeting in a bar, then leaving and going to somewhere more private away from the marine, much more secure to hand over something illegal.

Rosemary,

I hope that your reading is correct and that a good ending is coming. I know that timing is always a problem, and that it could be just around the corner, or a long ways off.

I have faith in MJ, and his reading saying this woman is not the woman (or is a deception etc) doesnt meant that this turn in the investigation doesnt lead somewhere. It may open another lead, and it may yield results. If as predicted Madeleine is returned, then at some point we will know how accurate MJ was.
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Rosemary

Post by Rosie on Sun Aug 09, 2009 10:02 am

I hope with all my heart that your Tarot reading proves true. I must say that I have felt for a long time that Madeleine is alive and unharmed physically, but maybe mentally a little stressed. I feel she knows who she is but chooses to remain silent about it, although not knowing, more sensing that it would be better for her to be still about it. I do not get a sense of her being in Australia, but feel she is in Europe somewhere. I said earlier sometimes I think she is in Portugal, sometimes I think she may be in Spain and other times I think she is further away and then I feel she is very close and possibly in France. I have no idea why I feel like this, I wonder if she is continually being moved around to avoid detection.

Clairesy, they may have agreed to meet on land in a bar at this time because it would appear much less conspicuous than someone hanging around waiting for a boat. But then perhaps the person that was bringing Madeleine was travelling in by road and was late. Let's face it a meeting between a man and a woman in a club or bar at that time in the morning would not raise many eyebrows, it happens all the time in those holiday places, but a meeting on a boat if spotted by the harbour master, would be noted and would be viewed as suspicious and probably cause details to be taken and even questions to be asked. Don't forget, there is security covering these boats, they are worth many thousands of pounds! But if she was brought in by road and then smuggled on to a smaller boat and then taken out to the main boat which was possibly anchored out to sea, if no one saw her, then this would not be viewed as suspicious as this kind of thing happens all the time. I have always believed that something went wrong when Madeleine was first abducted which threw a spanner in the whole works and caused a domino effect down the line of what was supposed to happen, I have said this many times, which accounted for why the abductor, why he or she was walking around PDL with Madeleine in his/her arms, somehow or another they missed a connection and there was a sudden change of plans, which could very well account for why this woman was agitated in the club and almost got caught and maybe if this man had spoken earlier, she would have been.
I do not think it was strange that she said have you got the girl or my daughter, I would doubt she said 'new' though. She was probably told to refer to Madeleine as her daughter, this way it would arouse less suspicion, if challenged they could say she was her daughter being handed over by her father, this type of thing happens all the time for access visits. If she was waiting for someone and she mistook this man for the person she was meant to be meeting, she has been described as being in a highly agitated state, well this would be natural, by this time the whole world knew Madeleine was missing, which is why I think there is no way they would risk being seen meeting in the port by the harbour master. Maybe Madeleine was meant to be picked up by boat in PDL, but something went wrong and the person panicked and set sail without picking Madeleine up, which would account for why the abductor was seen walking around PDL with Madeleine, so plans were quickly changed and when contact was finally made they arranged to take her to Spain by road to the Port for the hand over, which would be far less risky than doing it in Portugal at that time. There are a few scenarios as to why I think this meeting could very well have taken place in Spain at this time and they may have used a mobile and this is why the woman spoke to the man when he approached her, because she was expecting someone to. It could have been a throw away mobile, I wonder if records can be checked to see how much mobile phone call activity there was around this time in this area?

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Re: FIND MADDIE AUSSIE

Post by clairesy on Sun Aug 09, 2009 10:10 am

Hi Diane your right,i s what your saying i just cant get my head around how dum it would have been to come out with that...''have you got my new daughter?'' Its sooo stupid given that she is terrified and about to take an abducted child off someone.

But if the Portuguese are the ones to have leaked that then its no wonder it sounds bizarre.

I suppose it could have happened though...who knows.Maybe she did say those actual words to that witness.If she did then shes very lucky to have been free for as long as she as been.I think the guy who approached her was suppose to have been afraid to talk because he didn't want his wife to know..he was afraid she would assume he was going to her to flirt. Everybody as their reasons for not coming forth with something i suppose.But i just find it a Little hard to swallow.

The thign is though...this case as had us gripped for soo long now...and al the way we have been in situations similar to this one,where a sighting is reported or some new info comes in and each and every time we are all discussing what is wrong or what could be wrong with that particular information.This time the convo seems a little dim and to be honest hard to believe when coming from someone whos about to accept a stolen child. But nothing would surprise me with this case anymore.

I think the mccanns are wise though not to build their hops up to much each time they are faced with new info ...it would be really hard not to though im sure.

This aussie woman as not yet been found which gives me hope actually because as minxy said tonight on msn....if she truly as nothing to do with madeleines abduction why hasn't she come forward yet??? She would surly remember being agitated about something on that marina and she would definitely remember asking some stranger if he as her new daughter...so if she is innocent then why not come forward??Leaves you to believe that she is out there and maybe with madeleine....

the lady in Australia who as come forward and given a statement to police stating she believes she knows the identity of the woman in the efit is encouraging and im trying to wait up longer to get a read on tomorrows papers..

This latest news certainly makes sense in many ways,the only bit that doesn't add up for me is the wording of the convo. But like i said i think the portuguse leak source could be behind that.

Oh god let this be true and a major lead that lead to madeleine's safe return!
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Re: FIND MADDIE AUSSIE

Post by Rosie on Sun Aug 09, 2009 10:13 am

Ditto Diane, I don't think the intention was ever to hand Madeleine over in the club, or even outside it, they were probably meant to meet there and then the woman would walk with the man to where he was parked and go somewhere else much quieter for the hand over and I would bet that the person bringing Madeleine in was not familiar with the area and was late, hence the woman's agitation and anxiousness. Let's face it, she would have been anxious, she was breaking the law and due to receive an abducted child, who by then nearly the whole world new had been abducted!

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Re: FIND MADDIE AUSSIE

Post by dianeh on Sun Aug 09, 2009 10:26 am

And Claire, you are dead right. Unless this woman is living in an igloo in Alaska (and even then she probably has seen the news reports), she knows that they are looking for her.

I might not remember the exact night of something that happened 2 years ago (ie the date I mean) but I think I would remember being at that marina/bar area around that time, late at night, and that 2 Brits tried to chat me up. So unless something has happened to her since, she is deliberately not coming forward.

But maybe she hasnt seen the coverage.

I take it his has had coverage throughout Europe. I havent seen it on Fox news, but that is the only US news I have seen in the last few days, I havent caught any of the others.

Calcite, Bluj, is it being broadcast there. Is it on CNN, or MSNBC etc? which means it is going around the world.
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Re: FIND MADDIE AUSSIE

Post by Rosie on Sun Aug 09, 2009 10:27 am

Clairesy, we don't know what was said in that conversation, we only know what the papers are telling us and this may be totally fictitious! It looks like it was leaked by the Portuguese police, so let's face it, they are going to leak anything they can to scupper this investigation. But even if she did say daughter, she may not have said 'new' and if she said daughter, is it really that odd? I don't think so, many men hand over children for access visits and there is animosity between them. I have seen somethng like this a couple of times, once inside a McDonald's at almost midnight in the niddle of London in December and the other time in Sainsbury's car park in the middle of the afternoon, both times the parents had words! I particularly remember the McDonald's one because I then went to the ladies and found a wrap in there and I wasn't too impressed!

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Re: FIND MADDIE AUSSIE

Post by clairesy on Sun Aug 09, 2009 10:29 am

Hmmm rosie i wonder if murats hiring of a car in a hurry is connected to that mayhem that may have been caused after she was taken...an unexpected delay that ment someone had to egt a car now....murat was reported to have had a bit of a hasty convo on the phone with the lady at the rental place...he was short of breath and seemed agitated saying i need the car now...wouldn't even wiat until the lady had eaten her lunch...he told her if he didn't have it now he would go elsewhere to do business,he said he needed it because the english couple were using his to look for their daughter!!!! liar!
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Re: FIND MADDIE AUSSIE

Post by Rosie on Sun Aug 09, 2009 10:46 am

clairesy wrote:Hmmm rosie i wonder if murats hiring of a car in a hurry is connected to that mayhem that may have been caused after she was taken...an unexpected delay that ment someone had to egt a car now....murat was reported to have had a bit of a hasty convo on the phone with the lady at the rental place...he was short of breath and seemed agitated saying i need the car now...wouldn't even wiat until the lady had eaten her lunch...he told her if he didn't have it now he would go elsewhere to do business,he said he needed it because the english couple were using his to look for their daughter!!!! liar!

Clairesy, I sent you a Pm, you must have been writing this as I was mentioning him to you!

I also wanted to ask people if they heard the journalist ask Dave Edgar if the person Jane Tanner saw could have been a woman and Dave Edgar said that it could have been! that was the end of that conversation, but it was mentioned! Now then, what were we saying a little while ago?

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Re: FIND MADDIE AUSSIE

Post by jean on Sun Aug 09, 2009 10:51 am

Another thought for you all. Remember the taxi driver who says he took two men, a woman and a child (who had the mark in her eye). Can't remember where they went, but I'm sure it was somewhere along the coast from Praia da Luz. I still can't get the idea away from my thoughts that Murat, his girlfriend, the Russian and Madeleine fit the bill. Where were they taking her, to a boat somewhere perhaps moored along the coast??? Then there was the incidence of a couple strolling along the sea front in the early hours of 4 May, and saw someone on a jet ski with a 'large parcel' in front of him speeding off towards a large boat moored off the coast!!! It all seems to be fitting together quite nicely. So perhaps there may be a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel, and we can begin to have a little bit of hope that she will be found.

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Re: FIND MADDIE AUSSIE

Post by clairesy on Sun Aug 09, 2009 11:17 am

Rosiepops wrote:
clairesy wrote:Hmmm rosie i wonder if murats hiring of a car in a hurry is connected to that mayhem that may have been caused after she was taken...an unexpected delay that ment someone had to egt a car now....murat was reported to have had a bit of a hasty convo on the phone with the lady at the rental place...he was short of breath and seemed agitated saying i need the car now...wouldn't even wiat until the lady had eaten her lunch...he told her if he didn't have it now he would go elsewhere to do business,he said he needed it because the english couple were using his to look for their daughter!!!! liar!

Clairesy, I sent you a Pm, you must have been writing this as I was mentioning him to you!

I also wanted to ask people if they heard the journalist ask Dave Edgar if the person Jane Tanner saw could have been a woman and Dave Edgar said that it could have been! that was the end of that conversation, but it was mentioned! Now then, what were we saying a little while ago?

Laffin yer i got it,Murat again ..........and im the same,i cannot let him go im adamant he knows more. The woman seen peering through Madeleines window by a witness was blond i think,had shoulder length hair.
Jean that could be the three who were in the car.I think malinka as boats or has a boat to.Im going to try and find out more on that im sure i read back in the early days that he as a boat or works with boats.Dont quote me on it though because i aint 100% sure.Anyone else remember a report about malinkas boat?
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Re: FIND MADDIE AUSSIE

Post by AlexG on Sun Aug 09, 2009 1:36 pm

Del


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Re: FIND MADDIE AUSSIE

Post by AlexG on Sun Aug 09, 2009 1:37 pm

...


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Re: FIND MADDIE AUSSIE

Post by AlexG on Sun Aug 09, 2009 2:44 pm

...


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Re: FIND MADDIE AUSSIE

Post by rosemary on Sun Aug 09, 2009 5:56 pm

I too have a gut feeling that things went very wrong with Maddieīs abduction. I wonder just how long the woman had been waiting - was she there before those guys arrived? If it was a credible and significant conversation as the team say - and a handover of a child was indicated - and she didnīt have a cell phone to iiase with others - she must have been in an extremely distressed state of mind, no wonder she yelled at the other guy in the other bar. Then she apparently didnīt wait all that long before she "wandered off". My gut feeling here is - no cell phones as they had been discouraged, like I said before, these guys know it all, even throw away ones were discouraged - but I would not agree with the idea of a handover of a child in a Marina bar late at night anyway UNLESS things had gone badly wrong with the initial plan.
And yes, where is this lady now??? Why hasnīt she come forward? Well whatever she was up to that night it sounds dodgy, She is not likely to voluntarily come out of the woodwork.

There is an outside chance she is in the middle of the ocean on a boat, but they all have plasma TVīs on board these days. And she has friends who would phone. She knows for sure she is wanted.

So we wait.......again.

Alex has PMīd me asking if I am a medium. The answer is that I have some experiences in that direction but no, I do not claim to be one or to professionally practice such a gift.

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Re: FIND MADDIE AUSSIE

Post by rosemary on Sun Aug 09, 2009 7:11 pm

A thought is gathering momentum in my mind. Could it be that this Aussie motoryacht is the "distraction"? Just because this woman had an Aussie accent doesnīt mean she had to have got there on this boat. From what we are now hearing anyway it looks as if this boat has been located and may well be eliminated.

So how else did she get there? It has to be by car or by boat. Why the Marina? Is there another boat involved? Moored outside the Marina as they often are? Was there meant to be a delivery in the Marina? Or was it just a useful meeting point for someone else arriving on a boat? Letīs look at likely scenarios.

1. She is a druggie needing a fix badly- She came by car or by boat
2. She was using the street slang for cocaine.
3. She is a courier herself for an abduction.
4. She is the new likely parent. (I doubt this)-
5. Any other ideas anyone?

Then maybe we can vote on it?

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Re: FIND MADDIE AUSSIE

Post by rosemary on Sun Aug 09, 2009 7:25 pm

PS I do have a 5th scenarion which I for one do not believe (explain later)
5. she is/was a distraction/decoy meant to confuse the trail

And the reason I donīt believe this one is because her agitation was genuine and not faked. And this can be judged from the outburst in Spanish that took place elsewhere.

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Re: FIND MADDIE AUSSIE

Post by Rosie on Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:24 am

AlexG wrote:While investigators do not believe the woman is a suspect in the case, they do believe what she told the man could be significant to their investigation.

So ... Now the woman is no longer a suspect, just what she told ? No way .... There is something very wrong here.

Actually the detectives said right at the beginning that this women was NOT a suspect, (exactly what they said about Raymond Hewlett) It has been pointed out several times already that it was the press that wrote in 'suspect' sectionalising things as they normally do. So let's not get too carried away about the use of a word that the investigators did not use anyway.

What she said, is of far more interest to me than what the press are calling her and with all due respect, we do not even know that what the press are reporting she said is true, as the detectives have not confirmed it and they also said they would NOT be disclosing what was said.

Equally where is this street slang for coke coming from? Sky blogs? I don't doubt that coke has many names, but by far the most common terms are Charlie and gear. Equally, I would bet my house on the fact that the detectives are very up on their drug slang and have probably considered this as a possibility.

I am not ruling out that this may be something and nothing, but what I am saying is that these experienced detectives, experienced in drugs, abductions, gangs, dealers etc etc etc have no doubt thought of all this and yet still deem it necessary to hold this press conference and ask for the public's help in tracing this woman, so they in the entirety of their experience and probably forgetting more about detective work than we will ever know, think it is worthwhile doing this and yes they may have other reasons for doing so and then again they may just really and truly want to trace this woman and rule her out of their enquiries.

Don't forget that the detectives said during the press conference that they have already been investigating this latest lead and they have exhausted avenues of enquiries and now they need the publics' help, now I trust them and their judgement and hopefully this is the start of the breakthrough in this case and it does lead to the whereabouts of Madeleine. I hope so with every sinew, so the end of this perpetual circus for Madeleine and her parents and her family is in sight. I for one am not going to keep doubting the detectives and what they do and say, I trust them and trust they have reasons for doing what they do, reasons we are not privy to and why should we be?
They are not fools, they know fully well that using the press would result in this kind of speculation, I expect it was all taken into consideration when they made their decision to go public with it.

What is of interest to me is the fact that the police in NSW are cooperating and also the AFP and the Spanish police too and for all we know Interpol may also be involved. In my opinion there is *nothing* very wrong with the way this investigation is being run by these two experienced detectives, it is just being run how this investigation should always have been run and which the Portuguese police failed miserably and comprehensively to do, for reasons better know to Goncalo Amaral!

Interesting isn't it, that other police forces and the private detectives have known about this development for a few weeks and nothing gets leaked, yet apparently, as soon as the Portuguese police get hold of it, the leaks start about what was in that conversation, which could seriously damage this inquiry, not only that, I bet a pound to a penny that the PJ have added in and subtracted out bits to ridicule it. I am also suspicious about the mention of this Swedish vessel and it leaving Portugal (PDL) supposedly turning up at another destination, but was never logged as doing so, and the Portuguese police have apparently had what can only be termed as *maybe* vital information and they sat on it and did nothing?

If this is really the case, then I ask again, where is mention of this in the police files on this case? Has anyone seen it?

If it is not mentioned in the files, then why not? It is of vital importance, so if it has been left out of the files, why?

To my mind if this was left out of the files and this mystery boat was just allowed to sail of into the sunset after failing to comply with maritime law AND the PJ have once again leaked highly confidential and sensitive information, such as what was said in the conversation, these two points alone are so serious that either one of them would be enough to trigger a full public inquiry in any other country.

Not withholding also the huge breach of witness confidentiality that occurred when highly sensitive witness information in the form of witness statements, home addresses, home and mobile phone numbers, was passed to Goncalo Amaral's "friend" journalist, Felicia Cabrita, before Goncalo Amaral was sacked for heading the Madeleine investigation and of course before he was found guilty of lying and withholding witness information concerning a torture. The same disgraced former detective who has lately been charged with another crime concerning torture of another witness.

This to me is the something that is 'very wrong' about this whole affair and not the investigation that these two experienced former detectives are heading into Madeleine's disappearance now.

At the very least, Portugal MUST hold a full and open public inquiry into this investigation, something I have been calling for BEFORE Amaral was sacked!

I just wonder when Portugal will hold this inquiry? However, I am not holding my breath that they ever will.

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Re: FIND MADDIE AUSSIE

Post by Rosie on Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:45 am

I don't think for one minute that even if this woman was there to take charge of Madeleine, that it was ever arranged to happen inside this club.

Apparently from what we are told by the detectives, she left one bar and went to the next one still being able to see from where she was.

It would be far more risky to hand a child over at sea, as Diane has already pointed out, if you get that wrong, you are stuffed and have nowhere to run or hide. Far better to arrange to meet the "courier" in a club/bar, then go off somewhere quiet to make the handover, somewhere where this woman may have parked her car. If this was what happened, I would bet that the courier bringing in Madeleine was not familiar with the area, hence the meet at a bar which is relatively easy to find. Who would normally take much notice of a man meeting a woman in a bar then going off together, or chatting and then going off in different directions? That in itself is not remarkable. I can understand this woman who I think could have been just there to take charge of Madeleine, was agitated. She was about to receive into her control a child half the world was aware of as missing, she probably did not know the man she was due to meet and had sketchy description. If it happened at all, I think Madeleine was brought in by two or more people, one got out to meet the woman in the bar and to take her back to where Madeleine was, they then went off to meet someone where quiet and the woman took Madeleine into a car which was probably waiting with a driver and then to a waiting boat where she was hidden, which then probably went out to an anchored boat and I believe there was another person waiting with the boat. These big boats are anchored off shore and are accessed by people on smaller boats all of the time, so no real notice would have been taken of it. But a meet on a quayside between several different people and at least two cars, would in the quiet and stillness attract attention.

I think this latest story is significant, however it seems, it could be the detectives are using this a smokescreen, and it could be they are simply telling the truth, none of us know, but all of us hope for the best.

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Re: FIND MADDIE AUSSIE

Post by rosemary on Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:50 am

Good post Rosie as always. Just to clear up the street slang thing. I heard it first on Sky Forum but then I Googled it to verify it and it is true. Type in "Street slang for Cocaine The Girl" These words change with the times Rosie. Gear and Charlie are no longer so fashionable!

But she may have said "daughter" and that is NOT in Google. We simply do not know. But I do have faith that the team knows all the sreet slang in current use and would have debated this. I trust them implicitly. I only hope they have all the time and money and resources they need to take this new lead to the end of the road.

I leave Goncalo and his cronies to the powers that be.

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Re: FIND MADDIE AUSSIE

Post by rosemary on Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:14 am

Iīm sorry everyone but the more I research this phrase the more possible it seems to me that she was asking for a delivery of cocaine.

There is a rap song out called "My little white girl" which is about crack cocaine. A Marina is a most likely place to buy some coming in from Morocco or wherever-

She could easily have said ·Are you here to deliver my daughter? My little girl?"

Makes sense.

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Re: FIND MADDIE AUSSIE

Post by calcite51 on Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:04 am

We still don't know the exact phrase used by the woman in question. Just the fact that former police officers are interested in pursuing this lead is encouraging to me - of course, I could be wrong and this lead may lead them to nowhere but all credible leads should and must be investigated.
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Re: FIND MADDIE AUSSIE

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