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FIND MADDIE AUSSIE

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Re: FIND MADDIE AUSSIE

Post by AlexG on Fri Aug 07, 2009 3:29 pm

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Re: FIND MADDIE AUSSIE

Post by Pumpkin on Fri Aug 07, 2009 5:34 pm

Rosiepops wrote:If you read back on this thread you will find the answer to your question! Dave edgar the private detective has actually answered that!

But there are "reasons" doesn't really answer it! Which reasons? I wonder if we'll ever find out.
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Re: FIND MADDIE AUSSIE

Post by rosemary on Fri Aug 07, 2009 5:56 pm

It sounds to me that "Are you here to deliver my new daughter?" could well be a code. I canīt somehow imagine a very wealthy, desperate and compassionate woman would herself be hanging around a Marina Barside area at 2 in the morning to take delivery of a frightened child.
One other thing strikes me as a bit odd too, Where was this womanīs mobile phone? If you are to meet a total stranger late at night wouldnīt this be the most important and obvious way to keep in touch and check them out?

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Re: FIND MADDIE AUSSIE

Post by rosemary on Fri Aug 07, 2009 5:58 pm

Re this lack of a mobile. If it was a criminal act then of course no mobiles could have been mandatory. They know it all these guys. Ever watched The Wire on TV?

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Re: FIND MADDIE AUSSIE

Post by rosemary on Fri Aug 07, 2009 6:28 pm

and Dianeh I do have to take issue with you over this Aussie accent thing. Where do you think the Aussie accent comes from, originally? You cannot say it "is nothing like a Cockney accent", Grant you it has developed and assimilated other British accents too in 150 years but it still has many pronounced flat vowels that come from that same source. Having been an actress for my sins, in my working past life , I made a study of accents, love them, find them utterly fascinating.

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Re: FIND MADDIE AUSSIE

Post by Rosie on Fri Aug 07, 2009 8:28 pm

Diane, looks like what we thought the reasons were for this man not coming forward may be sound? There is probably a little more to this than has been revealed.

Great isn't it? The investigators have had this for a while and have been investigating it and have come to a dead end, so they needed the help of other police forces and the public and as soon as the Portuguese police get hold of it they leak what could be absolutely vital information, how dare they?

Now the Portuguese government *MUST* act, there is corruption within the policia judiciaria and it must be rooted out. I assume this information the PJ would have been classified and people would have been told on a strictly 'need to know' basis? It jolly well should be and if it was, then the leak has to be fairly easily traceable, as not that many people would have been in receipt of it, at a guess, I believe the McCanns would have sent this over to Portugal already translated, but if it wasn't, then they could start their inquires as to where this leak came from, starting with the person who translated the documents, couldn't they Claudia79?

If this turns out to be true and this was Madeleine, then a certain person, turned prolific author of trash and lies and who has carved out a quasi celebrity status for himself, has much to lose, probably not attributes that he would value very much, like; self respect, integrity, empathy and decency etc!

There are at least two people with connections to the policia judiciaria, who know what happened to Madeleine McCann and where she is now, if I were them, I would start talking - fast!

Humour me, on the night that Madeleine was abducted, can someone remember where Goncalo Amaral was? Wasn't he supposed to be having dinner and drinks with friends in a bar near a harbour some miles up the coast from Praia da Luz?

There are also prominent business people, local to Praia da Luz, that have *shipping* connections, they would certainly have access to people that owned *high powered* boats.

Humour me again, if someone was sending a consignment of say wine, or leather jackets etc over to Australia by sea, where would be the nearest port to Portugal or Spain, that such a cargo ship would set sail from?

And isn't there rumoured that an aunt of a prominent person in the Madeleine investigation, had dealings with child adoptions?

Also, referring to Joana Cipriano's disappearance, her mother has lately revealed that she was persuaded by her brother, Joana's uncle, to sell her daughter to a childless couple, where she would have a much better life. Joana's uncle said the sale did not go through, I simply do not believe that, I think it did go through, only I think that the PJ broker took Joana forcibly from the uncle and did not pay out the money for her, keeping it all for himself and further reducing the risk of being discovered, by negating giving a drug addict a large sum of money, which would inevitably have to be explained in any missing child investigation.

As I have said all along, something very corrupt and sinister took place and several things are now beginning to fit into place and make a great deal of sense and firmly believe that this jig saw started to come together when Raymond Hewlett came on to the scene!

Oh dear Sr Amaral and Sr Cristavao, what do you two think? Come on now don't be shy, after all you both have not been backward in coming forward with your bizarre claims about these two *abductions* previously have you? I would have thought that you two, would definitely have some thoughts on the matter, after all one of you was involved in *BOTH* investigations and the other involved in just the one (admittedly, it didn't stop you writing a book about BOTH cases though!). I would have thought that Sr Cristavao who heads the 'Portuguese Association for Missing Children', would definitely have an opinion on the possibility of corruption and abducting children to sell to childless couples?

Just to refresh people's memories Paulo Cristavao (a very good friend of Goncalo Amaral) REFUSED to add the name of Madeleine McCann to the list of missing children in Portugal, the association which he (Cristavao) heads.

Both of these men have been involved in failed controversial investigations into the abduction and disappearance of children, children who incidentally, have *never* been found! So we would be forgiven for thinking that they would have a lot to say about this matter?!

Perhaps these two men when and if they do give their opinions, could at the same time give us all a short explanation as to why both seem to be obsessed with the sea? How did Cristavao's book about Madeleine end now? Something like this?

"The two detectives stood overlooking the sea?"

All roads leading back to Amaral and now Cristavao, perhaps roads is the wrong expression? Perhaps we should substitute that with "shipping lanes?"

It is odd, this looking out over the sea thing, it is almost like a criminal returning to the scene!

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Re: FIND MADDIE AUSSIE

Post by rosemary on Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:05 pm

Rosiepops the best port for cargo to Australia would undoubtedly be Lisbon.

But honestly I have grave doubts about a child being sold for "a childless couple in another country". To me that sounds much more like a deliberate deceitful ploy - an attempt to "soften the blow" to a caring but desperate and impoverished and probably uneducated parent, who is being targeted for their child or children.

Maybe I am too much of a cynic.

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Re: FIND MADDIE AUSSIE

Post by dianeh on Fri Aug 07, 2009 11:17 pm

Rosemary

I was married to a man from Hampshire for 10 years, my cousin was married to a cockney for 15 years, my grandfather was from Luton, my uncle from Conventry. Two of my cousins lived in London for a number of years and lost their own accents very quickly. I also know accents.

Even within Aust, we have different accents, its just that you cant recognise them. Sometimes even for us it is difficult to pick a kiwi.

But one thing for certain, our accent is nothing like a cockney accent. Having had a cockney in the family, I am surprised to think that you find any similarities at all.

My own descent is English (great great granfather deported in one of the last convict ships was from Cornwall), and German (free setllers in the late 1890's). The convicts were deported from all over England. Immigrants came from all over England, Wales, Scotland and a large number of Irish. then in later years huge numbers of Italians and other Europeans. No, Rosemary, the Aussie accent is nothing like the Cockney one.

Our Aussie accent is derived from England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland, Italy, Greece and more recently from Asia. It is not derived from Cockney's from London.
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Re: FIND MADDIE AUSSIE

Post by rosemary on Sat Aug 08, 2009 12:37 am

Dianeh It is obvious I have, quite unintentionally I assure you, offended your Australian sensibilities with this issue and for that I apologise. I had no idea it was still considered colonialist and imperialist (not that you have accused me of such! but I begin to suspect that others might) to refer to the derivation of Australian English as having "Cockney" origins. I did in my post originally state in my defence that of course language assimilates and changes ever constantly and the influx of massive immigration of other nations from all over the world in the last 50 to 100 years has made huge differences to the sound of Australian English. If you do however Google Wikepedia Australian English you will see my references to the Cockney sound is acknowledged.

It may well be that to a British ear the Australian English even today can sound more Cockney than it would to someone born and bred in Australia.

I am really loathe to start up a thorny debate here Dianeh. I accept your point of view and I respect it. But like they say I donīt have to agree with it.

I hope we can still find friendly ground!

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Re: FIND MADDIE AUSSIE

Post by Claire from Canada on Sat Aug 08, 2009 1:25 am

Hi Everyone,

I don't know if you'll remember me or not, but I used to post on here for quite a while from Canada. I just wanted to say how delighted I am to see that you are all still so actively involved, and that this recent news of the 'Australian Connection' is huge here in the Canadian press.

I can only pray that this brings us some kind of closure, and obviously a positive ending.

Keep fighting the fight.

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Re: FIND MADDIE AUSSIE

Post by Claire from Canada on Sat Aug 08, 2009 1:27 am

One more thing I forgot to mention....

As far as the conversation that took place between the mystery woman and the witness(es), it would seem likely that the woman, in her agitated state, probably approached the men and said something to the effect of 'are you here for the British girl, are you picking her up etc, and the were perhaps playing along with her not realizing that she was a sick freak. Just a thought, but I think it's likely that's what happened.

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Re: FIND MADDIE AUSSIE

Post by Rosie on Sat Aug 08, 2009 2:55 am

A few of us had already worked out more or less what this woman may have said and why, although we have to remember that none of us actually know what was said, as the newspapers are printing their own versions, I think we all knew this was coming. It is inevitable I suppose. I just feel for this man as he wanted to remain anonymous and avoid all of this, probably did not want to be insulted by the rabid antis either and this is just what we, on this side of the fence have been saying all along, that their reactions and accusations and the sheer nasty spitefulness of some of the antis posts (including Bennett), is just the type of thing that has actively PREVENTED people who could hold vital information from coming forward! This is why I wish they would shut their foul mouths up and STOP trying to prevent Madeleine from being found.

Rosemary, this thing about the cockney accent, it is not only the accent, cockneys talk in rhyming slang and they tend to drop their a's and h's etc, my OH is a true cockney and he does not sound one little bit like an Aussie, in fact I think the two accents are totally different.

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Re: FIND MADDIE AUSSIE

Post by rosemary on Sat Aug 08, 2009 3:37 am

Rosiepops do take a look at Google and type in Australian English. There I rest my case.

There are many sites to choose from re this subject i.e. the influence of Cockney and London accents upon Australian English - in particular the flat vowel sounds.. Wikepedia is the one I mentioned first but there are even a few sites on the influences of Cockney rhyming slang. But that is not the issue here.

I didnīt say that a "true Cockney sounds like an Aussie" Rosie. It is the other way around! And my original point was that a Spanish woman living with and learning English from a Cockney Londoner, could well end up sounding like an Aussie. It would be a right mix, but it is a possibility if you were a happy Brit in a Spanish bar late at night and you were trying to figure out where this woman came from - to conclude from her accent that she was Australian. On the other hand he could have been spot on. Maybe she IS an Aussie. The other guy said he thought it was a New Zealand accent. The doubt and uncertainty is what made me think more laterally if you like.

I would be happy to go on and provide many more examples and references about Australian English derivations but really I think I would be wasting mine and everyone elseīs time donīt you and this Forum is not the place for such an Academic discussion,

But if you feel so inclined do go and Google as I suggested as it is a fascinating subject.

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Re: FIND MADDIE AUSSIE

Post by rosemary on Sat Aug 08, 2009 4:13 am

Aside from the issue of this womanīs voice, something else struck me that was just as important, namely her body language. The fact that she was heard and seen laying into another man in an aggressive way in another bar in FLUENT Spanish made me think - this woman IS Spanish. But who on earth knows.....

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Re: FIND MADDIE AUSSIE

Post by Rosie on Sat Aug 08, 2009 4:59 am

It depends on how much you are prepared to trust the witness and as none of us have spoken to him, we have to rely on how impressed Dave Edgar is with him. There is a long time lapse and asides the possibility that this could be a hoax (which I doubt, but have still pondered), Dave Edgar seems pretty sure of this witness, least ways he is sure enough to have called this press conference and asked for the help of the AFP and the public. I understand also that there are two witnesses, so if this is a hoax, then both would have to be in on the hoax, so I am going to rule that out. Two men spoke to this woman and both seem to be saying she spoke with an Australian accent, they seem credible witnesses and the main witness holds down a senior position, so tentatively I trust his judgement, although many people are confused with certain accents. Speaking for myself, I have never been mistaken about an Aussie accent and I can clearly define the difference between an Aussie and Kiwi BUT I have muddled up the Kiwi accent with South African, as to me, both of these accents seem to replace the a in words with an i. (Well it seems like this to me) Maybe because I love the Aussie accent I can define it, I don't know, but there you go.

As for when the woman spoke in Spanish, I believe the witnesses have already said they think she had an Australian accent so they would know she wasn't Spanish. I could understand a mistake being made if they just heard her speaking in Spanish and they had not conversed before, but as they had, I would imagine they knew she wasn't Spanish. By the way, these men were from the UK, if they were from the London area or even if they were not, the chances are they would have recognised a cockney accent immediately. It is possible to tell different dialects in foreign speaking people, take the Greeks for example, it is easy to hear a cockney accent mixed with a Greek accent, it has a certain lilt to it, as I would suspect an Aussie cross accent. Anyway this is getting in really deep here with accents. The witness seems fairly sure what he heard and Dave Edgar seems satisfied with it.
But from the efit, to my eye and if she does resemble Victoria Beckham and her colouring, then she could very well resemble a Spanish person, or even a Portuguese person and who knows, she may be from a family where there is a Spanish or Portuguese influence, which may explain why she was so fluent in Spanish, but my own daughter who lives in Spain speaks fluent Spanish, so I suppose that does not necessarily mean anything.

I just hope that this lead develops, I think it may, but this is just my thoughts.

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Re: FIND MADDIE AUSSIE

Post by Rosie on Sat Aug 08, 2009 5:14 am

Forgot to say, that there was a slim Portuguese woman in appearance that was seen hanging around outside apartment 5a, cannot remember if it was on the day of the abduction or in the days leading up to the abduction, but I seem to remember mention of it somewhere.
Does anyone have that efit description of her? I seem to remember she was described as having her hair back in a bun or something. I am just wondering what the chances are of this woman in Barcelona and this woman seen outside the apartment being one and the same?

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Re: FIND MADDIE AUSSIE

Post by rosemary on Sat Aug 08, 2009 5:22 am

I wish I was fluent. Iīve lived out here for 7 years now and can only just get by so to speak. But we are retired and do not live in a Spanish area and itīs really not so easy to learn at our age, so I go to classes twice a week which I love and it is helping. Onwards and upwards is what I keep saying to myself!

All this waiting for news is not good for my Blood Pressure though.

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Re: FIND MADDIE AUSSIE

Post by rosemary on Sat Aug 08, 2009 5:30 am

And I have to say I am more than sad to hear that a professional man put aside his concerns about this encounter for 2 years for "personal reasons". What kind of a wife would have wanted him to stay quiet over something like this? If that was the reason, I read somewhere it was. Or was it embarrassment?
What is a childīs life worth? A domestic row? Embarrassment? Oh please......! I am finding it difficult not be judgemental thatīs all.

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Re: FIND MADDIE AUSSIE

Post by rosemary on Sat Aug 08, 2009 5:54 am

The Telegraph is reporting that the investigation has been swamped by 100īs of calls re this woman.

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Re: FIND MADDIE AUSSIE

Post by Catkins on Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:46 am

rosemary wrote:The Telegraph is reporting that the investigation has been swamped by 100īs of calls re this woman.

Hopefully with the final piece of this weird jigsaw...........
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Re: FIND MADDIE AUSSIE

Post by rosemary on Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:51 am

BUT........has anyone else been reading Sky forum? This is a real downer but I thought we must know about it. Apparently "have you got the girl?" is street slang for "Have you got the cocaine?"

I Googled it and it is there. "Girl" is Coke and "White Haired Lady" is marajuana. and so on and so forth.

Did the detectives not know this?

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Re: FIND MADDIE AUSSIE

Post by Rosie on Sat Aug 08, 2009 7:32 am

I don't think there would be many names for drugs that these detectives are not aware of, seeing as how many years they have spent in the force.
I thought Charlie is short for coke? And I would not expect anything less of the morons that post on Sky to try and belittle this, that was a forgone conclusion. I can just see them all scuttling away to Google trying to turn that saying into something else, anything other than it means they will be proved wrong. Reminds me of why I do not bother with the place, don't want to know what they are talking about, last time I looked which was about 6 weeks ago they were still discussing the children being left on their own. I think I will take my chances with Dave Edgar and Arthur Cowley's experience and first hand knowledge of the situation rather than let Sky bloggers bother me.

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Re: FIND MADDIE AUSSIE

Post by dianeh on Sat Aug 08, 2009 10:07 am

Rosemary

You asked about why it would take him 2 years to come forward. I have been giving this a bit of thought. Did you notice that in the recent articles he is described as a bank manager? I suspect that it was more than just his wife that stopped him coming forward. I suspect that his job or position or reputation may have been the reason or part of the reason. Maybe he was not meant to be there, or was doing something he ought not to, and if it came out he may have put his job in jeopardy. Bank Manager can mean a lot of things, it doesnt just mean the manager of the local branch, he may be a lot higher up than that.

Of course, this ie pure speculation, but if you add that whatever he was doing may have upset his wife as well, then maybe it has taken the recent anniversary ( or maybe he watched Oprah) and couldnt live with himself any more.

What do you think?
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Re: FIND MADDIE AUSSIE

Post by dianeh on Sat Aug 08, 2009 10:13 am

Im with Rosie on the drugs thing. Edgar would know the slang term for drugs.

Woman had 2-3 minute conversation with witness. So if she was asking for Coke, then it would have been obvious to him after a little while that she meant something other than a real little girl.

Although, to give those Skynews morons their due, it is a good try. But I reckon that the detectives would have considered that, and as they have access to the whole conversation would know.

I didnt know it was called 'girl' either. But I bet it isnt called 'little girl' or 'new daughter'. It would be good wouldnt it, to know what actually said. Hopefully one day we will know.
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Re: FIND MADDIE AUSSIE

Post by calcite51 on Sat Aug 08, 2009 1:49 pm

Actually, Diane, you could be right - he could have watched Oprah and see the tape on the McCanns. I just wished he would have come forward sooner but he did come forward and I think his information is very plausible.
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