Justice 4 ALL Madeleine McCann Family
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New Forum For Joana and Madeleine

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New Forum For Joana and Madeleine

Post by Rosie on Fri Jul 17, 2009 8:03 pm

This is a new forum opened by Dr Marcos Aragão Correia, who is the official lawyer representing Leonor Cipriano.


www.asmeninasquevieramdasestrelas.com


In this forum you will be able to view the updates entered by Marcos, only thing is, the forum is in Portuguese, so for those of us who do not speak or read Portuguese, you will have to put the entries through a translator to help you try and understand them.

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Re: New Forum For Joana and Madeleine

Post by maria on Sat Jul 18, 2009 7:15 am

I looked into it already. I liked it. There is an open letter that he wrote to Amaral that is quite interesting. You may experience some problems when translating, as the language used is very coloquial. If you need help, feel free to let me know, I'll try my best.
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Re: New Forum For Joana and Madeleine

Post by Guest on Sat Jul 18, 2009 7:19 am

Thanks Rosie and thanks Maria.

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Re: New Forum For Joana and Madeleine

Post by Pedro Silva on Sat Jul 18, 2009 8:04 am

I disagree with his claims or theory about sweet Madeleine, because, until evidence otherwise given by those who are now in charge of this case, everything I do is based on this: she may still be alive somewhere out there, she may still be found alive.

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Re: New Forum For Joana and Madeleine

Post by Guest on Sat Jul 18, 2009 8:48 pm

Exactly Pedro. As long as there is hope then we must focus on the possibility that she is alive.

I wish Marcos well with his site. Again there is no proof that Joana is not alive either.

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Re: New Forum For Joana and Madeleine

Post by Rosie on Sun Jul 19, 2009 3:30 am

To each his own but I too will carry on believing that Madeleine is alive, and I believe this because I actually feel it.

Maria, it would be excellent if you could translate that piece for us, I know I would be interested in reading it.

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Re: New Forum For Joana and Madeleine

Post by maria on Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:05 am

The open letter? Will do, slowly, but will try.
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Re: New Forum For Joana and Madeleine

Post by Rosie on Sun Jul 19, 2009 6:07 am

Yes Please Mari a - thank you, but only when you have the time to spare! highfive

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Re: New Forum For Joana and Madeleine

Post by bluj1515 on Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:20 pm

Intriguing, glad he's getting out there, thanks Rosie for the link
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Re: New Forum For Joana and Madeleine

Post by AlexG on Tue Jul 21, 2009 7:50 am

.


Last edited by AlexG on Thu May 05, 2011 10:47 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: New Forum For Joana and Madeleine

Post by christabel on Wed Jul 22, 2009 8:38 pm

These are a couple of comments from Marcos's site. I can't beleive the similarities to Joanna and Madeleines investigations.
It is as though they had a written script and used it for both cases. GONC you are a disgrace and a waste of good food. affraid
Make the most of your handbags and sunglasses Sophia and you your Jag, you horrible little cretin.

[size=16]Comments

Jose Barra da Costa Martins,
Chief Inspector of Judicial Police (in retirement),
Trainer of Criminal Investigation in the PSP and GNR,
Criminal. University Professor of Criminology and Criminal Psychology.
E-mail: *******


HANDLING OF THE SPIRITS
. Dr. Marcos Aragão Correia you honored me by inviting me to write in this space on the conduct of the Joana case. Accept the challenge, I, on the subject, also to say two or three stick.
In September 2004, Leonor, the mother of Joana, began by making a complaint at the National Republican Guard (GNR) from Portimão on the alleged disappearance of the village where the girl lived, Figueira.. João Cipriano, uncle of Joan and brother of Leonor, confessed to the Judicial Police (PJ) that he and his sister had beaten her to death.
And in no other way out beatings, as was shown to be almost five years later in court. Through, given the complete lack of evidence about the fact that Leonor has complied or not with the outcome 'death' of her daughter Joana, now here is my argument: on hearing of the trial court should have opted for that solution were more favorable, given the principle in dubio pro reo.
But the truth was otherwise: the atrocious crime, the rendering and chest cold, the corpse desecrated the sty or the trash, the suicide of punches, all well mixed with endless evidence, a lot of belief, confession, faith as sufficient, Masses and processions. And also a lie: from a technical and strategic compose a fact that there was official only served to enshrine the state publicly that fell in the criminal investigation and PJ, whose national director had just assumed office.
Was its legitimate desire to "show service. Pressionado Pressed politically to hasten results that would later produce for the incident of the "black eyes as a result of the attempted suicide of the stairs below, the boss was still talking," the PJ had a "clear idea" of how things happened.Perhaps the same that led years later romanticize the composition of official truth about the process, with extensions to the Maddie case.
Much to hurt those criminal investigators and their supervisors of these things have gown an idea of the market, my book 'Maddie, Jane and criminal investigation. The hidden truth "was not the romance that was missing. Instead, came uncover the enormity that was the accusation made by the Public Prosecutor (MP), who hid behind the faith of the officials who remained until the end the double 'belief' that the remains of the girl went to the trash or thrown to the pigs. This is called, in fact, a bad "assessment of the evidence ', but' free ', because the stupidity is democratic. Do not remember the devil take a case to trial based on a dual condition of "or pork or trash '!
Here a free assessment of evidence meant, basically, an absence of legal criteria, in addition to a great deal of subjective, it is impossible to turn off the judge's personal experience, their culture, their ideas of life, its moral, etc.. So there was an apparent error in assessing the evidence, because this understanding has led to the court as evidence that sometimes, and no other evidence, determined that, when the conclusion should clearly have been the opposite, in some cases, under a logical inconsistency and offend principles or scientific laws, including the sciences of nature and the physical sciences.
However, the MP eventually lead to his advances. Even knowing that even the coroner who saw the rebuilding of rendering said the lean body of a girl of eight years, it ark that "the limit"! This means that it was fit, provided that the door of the ark was tied with a string!
Still, the MP claimed that the girl's body was shredded and the pieces of the body put in plastic bags that were stored for a few days in the freezer. At the risk, danger we, the stepfather of the girl open the chest, the size of a refrigerator in charge of a hotel - and not with the measures that are used when we speak of 'Ark', which both concerned the right and the PJ MP they were - and are so surprised "plenty" of meat in a house of misery! Then, neither PJ nor the reports of the prosecution of MP relate with certainty the place where those with the body bags have been taken.
Hence, for the MP and PJ, the emergence of Joan, live, or his corpse is the last thing that can happen. Quem é que está interessado nisso? Who is this person? What would such a discovery for the credibility of the institution which was the DNA of Justice in Portugal?
Perhaps that is why the MP, supported by the pressure of the media, asked for 25 years Leonor and John, whereas there is evidence of the practice, in co-authorship of the crime of qualified homicide.The trial took 20 hours, enough time to hear testimony from 45 witnesses against him: neighbors, relatives, the PJ inspectors and experts of Forensic Science. No witness for the defense. In the 'contempt of the public "to the accused.
The MP's argument, made by 139 points, is so simple and brutal: John and Leonor, brothers, were surprised by Joana (which nobody saw coming into the house) when kept sex. This does not made sense, given the time that the events occurred, in addition to two more children to sleep in the house, with Leandro (husband of Leonor) in the village and the door unlocked.
Then, when the defense pointed to the absence of direct evidence, the MP argued the question a legitimate faith in traces collected, contaminated by oil and bleach with which the house has been cleaned after the crime, not on the same day as the MP wanted to do believe, but eight days later ... which turn in either case the stepfather of the girl in accomplice. This cleaning was done before or after the arrival of the father? And had time to scarf the Jane and clean everything within 30 minutes of a possible attack, so that the stepfather did not get to see the signs of crime? After all, as was that of rubber and oil, the needle and thimble in this movie series B? Already in place on the night of Leonor's rendering, to be used to clean the floor of the room? . There is no doubt: as the court itself has established that, on 18 September 2004, Leonor has oil and a mop of steel, which washed the house, thus drawing to erase almost all evidence of what had occurred there, leaving only the final traces of human blood inside the house, but by contaminated products used.
But the 18th is a week after the disappearance! After all, on the possible death of Joan, his stepfather, husband of Leonor, saw the floor of the room or the dirty blood would be washed down when he arrived home early? As could be washed if the products in accordance with the bill, but were bought in the week following the disappearance of the minor? But the prosecution rely on the MP, the body of Joan was there "a few days", so no one can indeed say that the body was quartered in the next day! And was the husband of Leonor and the other children, forbidden to go to the ark? And it would be natural fear any action by the police in the residence and the resulting discovery of the body?
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Re: New Forum For Joana and Madeleine

Post by christabel on Wed Jul 22, 2009 8:40 pm

Second Half of first post as too big to post in one.

One of the facts established by the Court is that John remained at home until day 14 of Leonor, the time during which the two defendants, so that was not found, carried the remains of Joan to unknown location. Is explained by the fact that John has gone home for lunch the sister, in Silves, the day after the disappearance of Joana. . Someone who knows little of the criminal investigation heard John, a sister and two more people confirm that. Others, who know nothing of criminal investigation, in swallowing dry. Because John was not just lunch.
The cherry on top of the cake was embodied by a video that the PJ made during the investigation and was shown on the last day of trial, after John and Leonor have declared not to make statements. . In this film, John described (or reconstructed, according to MP) the crime with brutal details. Assuming it is in law the defendants innocent and determining the Code of Criminal Procedure (CPP) rules of production of evidence to the hearing for discussion and trial, could never have been displayed in the movie audience recorded during the investigation.
The art. 357 of the CPP only allows the reading in trial of statements made previously by the defendant, when he testify at trial. Portanto So it is not lawful in the reading audience of the declaration provides that the accused in the process. Only these 'statements' of John were not even part of the process! But even that does not valesse as evidence, the film was viewed, the jury saw it, and its lack of legal training may have led them to ignore the rules, which ignorant, and concluded by a fault when it was a complete lack of evidence.
Interestingly, the other videos and the images that were produced by PJ during the investigation of the Joana case, those not used to manipulate the jury. And the Court of Jury ultimately enhance the reconstitution of the facts, in which only the accused cooperated John, as sufficient evidence to incriminate Leonor by co-authors of assault resulting in the death (!) Of Joan, though there is no only evidence that corroborates this version.
The trial of Leonor and João presence had no witnesses, the defendants referred to the silence, so their statements in the investigation could not be valued by the Court. it was not possible to directly examine the corpse, which was never found.
The reconstitution of the facts only to work with John and never in the presence of the defendant Leonor. And again without the validation of the presence of the defendant, as - which is illegal and unconstitutional - could lead to the acquittal of the crime Leonor of murder.
. In cases of this nature or the presence of the defender is the guarantor of legality, validity or veracity of what those "reconstitutions" results. As we know, the law, the customary law tended over time to determine the means by which the court must reach the truth. Therefore, the evidence and the means of obtaining evidence are now exhaustively regulated, leaving the courts a discretion subjective, very low. Thus, and from the evidence in the case required the court to apply, with based on criteria of mathematical combination, only the relevant legal provisions. The Court a quo failed, therefore, the presumption of innocence constitutionally enshrined in Article 32, paragraph 2, of the Portuguese Constitution (CRP) does not apply in the circumstances Comines law.
The illustrious adviser Santos Carvalho, one of the masters who then fought in the Supreme Court of Justice (STJ) for this argument, said openly: "As the Court found the jury that the minor was beaten by the two defendants How knew that clash with head on the corner of the wall? And it was apparent that bleeding from the mouth, nose and temple, through the collisions on the wall? And that such clashes and fall caused the death of the child? And that the two defendants are guaranteed the death of the minor? E after which the corpse and put ham in plastic bags in the drawers of the chest cold? "
There were no issues of fact in the investigation of the disappearance of the girl of Figueira, where what was at stake was to prove that John and Leonor had done this or that. What evidence there was on the commission of the crimes charged, from the whole of the evidence produced, particularly the statements and evidence provided, the medical examinations and expert, and other endeavors. . But the evidence of this not passing, not enough to convict at trial. That is, the advertising and unfortunate 'belief' should have been based on 'something', therefore not enough that the Court had established beliefs, namely, that Jane was dead, that Leonor and John did disappear from the body Joana, and that was they who conducted the facts.
What is sought in criminal investigation is to demonstrate the truth of material facts relevant criminal, or have occurred in Praia da Luz or in Figueira. . However, with this demonstration, by their very nature, unlimited and unpredictable, it is understood that the law does not allow researchers to the use of certain evidence and of obtaining evidence. On the contrary, it allows them the choice and use of all appropriate means of proof that are not technically prohibited by law. But, whichever of our legal system of the general admissibility of any means of proof, if they are legal and legitimate, all are allowed that are not part of prohibited methods such as those obtained through torture, coercion and harm to the integrity physical or moral, namely, abuse, injury, hypnosis and other cruel or deceptive means to disturb the freedom of will and decision making, aggression and memory capacity of the evaluation, use of force, threatening to measure legally inadmissible.And the symbolic projection of this case is true when the researchers revisited the trial of the case Joana, accused of torture, and condemnation of the team responsible for 'lying' and the 'Maddie case' on the British girl disappeared in Praia of Light
Not a small reasonable doubt has traveled the conscience of the Court dismissed the jury that "if Jane 'because if that had happened would not have convicted. And yet, this was a trial that denied the most basic principles of rule of law. Why should a conviction based on evidence and in the case Joana "no evidence.
It is true that the criminal investigation can not accept a confession obtained by torture, though so sophisticated. It is also true that the MP should be guided by strict criteria of objectivity and legality. What is unacceptable is that it can support charges or convictions at any price, whether to "wash" the errors or mistakes of others, or to content the people, as we know, is not stupid. But one thing is certain: it was only due to ill-treatment Leonor confessed to the murder of her daughter, then why is doomed?
For Jane, was never found or even seen the body part. However, the two defendants were convicted of crimes that have as a typical and necessary death of the victim.
There must be recognition of the materiality of the crime. Nem mesmo a confissão do acusado, sem outro elemento de convicção, supre a falta do corpo. Even the confession of the accused, no other element of conviction, lack of supplies the body. And you can not say that someone died, while they are not your body or at least the remains of it, duly recognized. Accordingly, both in the case Joana 'as the' Maddie case 'to search for any' truth 'will lead to a serious and irreparable error judiciary.
Finally, and especially to you, Mr. José Carlos Pinheiro Franco - rank representative of the MP at the trial that Leonor was sentenced for the death of their daughter, Jane - this is not 'opinions', as you insinuated in a response document that will rise to the STJ, after the competent court judge has admitted the Extraordinary Review of Appeal decision in favor of Leonor Cipriano.What are arguments leave here with a notinha footer: no chat groups, I'm not in balance, much less like that advertising to my name. I do not know if I was clear!


Posted on 21 de Julho de 2009. Posted on July 21, 2009.
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Re: New Forum For Joana and Madeleine

Post by christabel on Wed Jul 22, 2009 8:41 pm

Post 2.

José Manuel Coelho,
Member in the Regional Legislative Assembly of Madeira,
Director of The Official Garajau.


 
MARCOS ARAGÓN CAUSES OF A LAWYER

We have been closely following the odyssey of our friend, here in the wording of the Official satiric "Garajau" as we know it is an impregnable rampart against fascist regime gardens in this island of the coast of Africa.
Mark Aragon in his struggle for a fair justice in this country, to join us as a natural ally. . We appreciate your fighting on land of the transparency of justice Algarve in Portugal. The fight of the unmasking of Inspector offender, Gonçalo Amaral, made by our young lawyer friend, is the rabid situationists the judiciary. We still remember the fascist judge of Faro that dared to expel our friend of the Court, alarvemente saying that he "not leave the left and the bad!
Marcos Aragão Correia, ported himself with bravery and courage in confronting and unmasking of the Pharisees who are pollute the apparatus of justice in Canada. Aragon, as we here in "Garajau", understand that our brave justice needs a sweep to stop the influence peddling that is steeped in favor of the rich and powerful. We need a justice free, quick and democratic, which is close to all citizens, not only the reach of citizens who have money.
We here in Madeira now copy the example of Marcos Aragão Correia in combating the Pharisees of justice, bringing to walk out of here, the Carlos Santos that the prosecutor called fascist and was best known by dr. "Cajó". Now us expose the lack of juizinhos trumpery that swarm the courts bottle gardens to serve the regime and that are constantly chasing the Democrats.
Not forgetting also the fight to judge the "seven-husbands" which is more than a month, a mega-trial order for our Deputy Director, Gil da Silva Canha in favor of the shark's gardening Rocha da Silva. Not forgetting also expose the Pharisee lawyer of MRPP Arnaldo Matos once CIA agent and now the service of the gardens, in particular Dr. "Papadas. Note that this shark's advocacy increasingly traveling to Madeira in the defense of thieves scheme charges a barrel of a mass that is paid by taxpayers Madeirans.
Our struggle here in the monthly "Garajau" is the same as Dr. Marcos Aragão Correia.

A big hug to him!

Posted on 22 de Julho de 2009. Posted on July 22, 2009.
And from us Marco Hugs
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Re: New Forum For Joana and Madeleine

Post by Rosie on Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:50 am

Christabel Said....


These are a couple of comments from Marcos's site. I can't beleive the similarities to Joanna and Madeleines investigations.
It is as though they had a written script and used it for both cases. GONC you are a disgrace and a waste of good food. affraid

Make the most of your handbags and sunglasses Sophia and you your Jag, you horrible little cretin.

How can they swan around in designer clothes and drive around in a brand new luxury car all the while *KNOWING* that they are living off a missing child that he (Amaral) failed? Talk about living off of immoral earnings! :stop:

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Re: New Forum For Joana and Madeleine

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