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Madeleine McCann's parents investigated for neglect

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Madeleine McCann's parents investigated for neglect

Post by Guest on Thu May 29, 2008 10:11 am

Here we Go !
Is that it ? :oops: Is that All They have Got after Nearly 13 Months ?? & Why Just the McCann's ???
Bring it on :scratch: Just open up those files :pale: you dont Need them... Your Not Even Looking for Madeleine !!

The parents of Madeleine McCann are being investigated for possibly neglecting their daughter on the night she disappeared from their Portuguese holiday apartment, it was revealed today.

The first published court ruling on the Madeleine case confirms that the police inquiry covers homicide, abandonment, concealment of a corpse and abduction.

The reference to “abandonment” suggests that Portuguese detectives are investigating if there is evidence that Kate and Gerry McCann were negligent in leaving their daughter alone on the night she was reported missing. The charge carries a maximum 10-year jail sentence.


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Mr and Mrs McCann, both doctors from Rothley, Leicestershire, have strenuously denied negligence and said they were just 50 yards away at the time their daughter was taken.

The court ruling also reveals that the public prosecutor wants access to the content of text, audio and video messages from 10 mobile telephones believed to belong to Kate and Gerry McCann and seven of their British friends.

Investigators are particularly interested in the content of 18 text messages allegedly sent from an unidentified mobile number to Mr McCann between May 2 and 4 last year. They also want details of all calls made between members of the group between 8pm on May 3 and midday of the following day.

Madeleine was reported missing at 10pm on May 3 from her bedroom at the Ocean Club resort in Praia da Luz. Her parents and their friends had been dining at a Tapas restaurant while Madeleine and her twin 18-month-old siblings were asleep.

The investigation has been covered by Portugal’s strict laws on judicial secrecy which meant that even Mr and Mrs McCann, who were made official suspects last September, have been unable to access details of the inquiry or any evidence against them.

However, details of the investigation have emerged in a court judgment, seen by The Times, after prosecutor Magalhães e Meneses was refused access to the content of the group’s telephone messages.

He had requested a “complete listings of all telephone traffic to calls made to and from” numbers between April 28, when the group arrived in Portugal, and September 9, when the McCanns left the country. He also sought details of the locations of the mobile telephones which would allow detectives to recreat the movement of the group.

The request for access to the messages was rejected by instructional judge Pedro Frias at the court in Portimão. He said it would breach the right to privacy and that Portuguese law did not allow for the retrospective interception of telephone calls.

The Évora Supreme Court of Justice has now rejected the prosecutor’s appeal and published its reasons, giving the first glimpse into the investigation.

Judge Fernando Ribeiro Cardoso rejected the application, saying: “The details of the content of the messages can only be objected to interception in real time, with due judicial authorization.”

Portuguese police had hoped to stage a reconstruction of the events surrounding Madeleine’s disappearance tomorrow. However, they have been forced to abandon the re-enactment after some of the McCanns friends said they could not see the value in returning to Portugal to take part.

Clarence Mitchell, spokesman for the McCanns, said: “We are pleased to see that the investigation covers abduction. Kate and Gerry have had legal advice in both Portugal and Britain which say that everything they did was within the boundaries of reasonable behaviour.”

He said that Mr McCann had no knowledge of the texts referred to on May 3 and 4 and had received only a few calls on his mobile in the six days the family had been in Portugal prior to Madeleine disappearance.

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That's It Then

Post by Rosie on Thu May 29, 2008 11:09 am

A big fat nothing? Nothing but a face saving exercise for the PJ.

If this ever gets to court GOOD, but I am not holding my breath, know why? Because it would mean they have to open the files and in no way on this earth will the PJ do this. The PJ do not want anyone knowing that there is nothing but a blamk sheet of paper that is supposed to be the evidence to charge the McCann's. No forensic evidence, not even any circumstamtial evidence, if there were they would be charging them today, in fact they would have charged them months ago.

Janet they say nothing of the other parents because they have no intention of chrging the McCann's for this, they are so predictable, which for detectives is bad news!

PJ are a bunch blithering idiotic prats, the could not detect their way out of a monkey puzzle tree.

This is the PJ swansong in order to try and blacken further the name of Kate and Gerry McCann, because they have absolutely nothing on them and they do not want the world to know, so they have scraped the bottom of the barrel and come up with this.
They have been scrabbling around in the mud for ages trying to think of a way out, we had this covered as a possible exit ages ago and the funniest thing it they think that we do not see right through them! lol

Quite simply the PJ are a complete joke, buffoons and morons.

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Post by dianeh on Thu May 29, 2008 11:20 am

It is interesting that the McCanns have had legal advice both here and in Portugal to say that their actions didnt constitute neglect, or abandonment.

That would to me mean that even if charged, there would likely be only a minimum sentence, if found guilty. And that according to their legal advice is not likely (found guilty I mean). And as I have said many times before, if the McCanns were charged and found not guilty, or found guilty and received a minimum sentence (after all, the PJ must prove that the McCanns actions directly led to Madeleine's death to get a maximum sentence and they clearly are not able to do that, as well as I wonder if the law allows for the actions of a third outside party when looking at sentencing for abandonment/neglect) then that will be a huge embarassment to the PJ and the Portuguese Judicial system. Imagine, over 1 year on and all they have got is minor charge (which may or may not be proven) of abandonment (with no hope of a maximum sentence even if convicted), against 2 parents that made regular checks on their children while dining 50 metres (??) away. Parents who were only following a babysitting model carried out be a respectable international resort.

Justice needs to be served, but surely to avoid embarassment, the PJ and judicial system could use the Portuguese social services to liaise with Britain to ensure that regular checks and counselling are carried out on the McCanns. This would surely show that the case is serious and has been dealt with. Just a thought.
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Re: Madeleine McCann's parents investigated for neglect

Post by janeGT on Thu May 29, 2008 11:29 am

I agree with you Diane.

Except this ball has already been set in motion and is continuing - as it has to - once social services are involved. It has a set routine, and outcome which was started when the Mccanns arrived in Rothley with the twins. As social services are now involved and there is liaising with Leicestershire Police and Portuguese officials (and I use that term very loosely as you know my views on them!!!) there is a standard procedure in place that cannot be altered until all the steps have been gone through and reported to the appropriate departments.

Social Services called on the McCanns very soon after they arrived back in the UK and so nothing further in this avenue can be explored. They (Social Services, Leicestershire) will continue to monitor the situation as appropriate formally.
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See No Respect for the Portuguese criminal system I wonder why ?

Post by Guest on Thu May 29, 2008 11:39 am

By Sky's crime correspondent Martin Brunt

The Portuguese criminal justice system is opening up, but at the same pace as the plucky snail I watched navigate the prickly stem of my Gunnera plant last night.

How he managed to avoid those deadly blue pellets I don't know, but that's another matter.

Anyway, the Supreme Court has released a document which shows how its judges turned down official pursuit of the McCanns' mobile telephone records.

In September the prosecutor wanted to ask three phone networks to reveal details of texts from 10 phones, presumably those of Kate and Gerry and their Tapas Seven friends.

The court document refers to one telephone that has not been identified, which sent Gerry McCann 14 texts the day before Madeleine's disappearance and four the day after.

The original request for the information was thrown out by the instructional judge and the prosecutor's appeal has just been rejected by the higher court.

I say "just", though the ruling was delivered a month ago and it's taken this long to emerge.

But, hey, don’t be churlish. Let's applaud a rare, tiny shaft of light that's penetrated the darkness of the Madeleine investigation.

Even if it doesn't really take us anywhere.

Written by Martin, May 28, 2008

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You Tell 'em Clarence !!

Post by Guest on Thu May 29, 2008 11:50 am

The parents of Madeleine McCann could face charges of neglecting their daughter on the night she disappeared, it has emerged.

Kate and Gerry McCannCourt documents published on The Times' website reveal the areas Portuguese investigators are considering include "abandonment".

The police inquiry also covers possible abduction, homicide and concealment of a corpse, the documents say.

The documents are the first official confirmation that the inquiry includes a possible allegation of neglect against Kate and Gerry McCann.

Clarence Mitchell, the couple's spokesman, emphasised the court papers did not mean such a charge would materialise.

He said the couple vigorously denied neglecting Madeleine and welcomed the fact that abduction was also being considered by detectives.

He said: "This court document outlines the areas of the investigation and in no :x way suggests Kate and Gerry will be facing any such charges.
"Equally we have heard nothing officially to suggest any such area of investigation is being considered.

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Keystone Kops (PJ)

Post by Rosie on Thu May 29, 2008 12:11 pm

The PJ look like they are covering all angles because they haven't got a clue what happened to Madeleine, because they haven't even investigated ALL possibilities. The only avenue they pursued was the one that Fat Lardy boy Gonc (Disgraced and sacked PJ Goncalo Amaral) led them down and none of the PJ buffoons realised it was a blind ally until they smacked into the wall at the end, none of the blithering idiots (PJ) saw it coming and ever since they have been trying to find their way back, it was a straight ally, not to difficult to renegotiate, but none of them have managed it yet. Someone send them a map please!

If this case wasn't so desperately sad, tragic and heart breaking, it would be funny! But it isn't and the PJ are a complete joke. Where is Madeleine you a*seholes? What have you done to look for her today?

The PJ make the Keystone Kops look good!

What does PJ actually stand for? Prattish Jesters or Police Jokers?

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Won't say too much but.....

Post by calcite51 on Thu May 29, 2008 3:03 pm

Do the PJ's really have a clue to what they're doing? By charging the McCanns with neglect, abandonment or whatever, they could be opening a big can of worms as other parents who have done the same thing as the McCanns (leaving the children 50 yards and doing half-hourly checks) could come forward and request they be investigated.

I find it very hard to believe when the judge did not think the PJ's had enough evidence to issue a warrant to investigate Dr. Gerry McCann's phone so can't imagine this charges holding much water in front of a judge. The wheels of justice do seem to work ever so slowly - we're still waiting for the PJ's to have their day in court..... :P :P
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Post by dianeh on Thu May 29, 2008 3:35 pm

Will believe charges against the McCanns when they happen and not before.

The whole thing is farcical. If a little girl's life were not at stake, it would be comical. Instead it is tragic.
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More on the Telephone Calls etc.

Post by dianeh on Thu May 29, 2008 4:34 pm

McCANNS IN FURY AFTER 14 TXTS SLUR
Cops demand Gerry's phone records
By Martin Fricker 29/05/2008
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News picturesGerry McCann reacted angrily yesterday to claims he received a string of mystery texts the day before his daughter vanished.

Police applied to Portugal's supreme court to seize his phone records after learning of the alleged messages.

They claim Gerry was sent 10 texts from an unknown number 24 hours before Madeleine disappeared.

And detectives say four messages arrived from the same mystery number the day after she went missing, according to court documents.

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But Gerry and wife Kate have dismissed the claims as "utter rubbish".

A source close to them said: "They have had their phone records available for inspection for months. But the police never asked for them. And now they have formally asked, they have been refused.

"Any suggestion of Gerry receiving 10 texts the day before Madeleine disappeared are utter rubbish.

"He hardly used his phone during the holiday and most of the friends with them didn't even have mobiles.

"The only time his phone rang was when work called and he explained he was on holiday. There are no mystery texts. Gerry has nothing to hide. It's yet more nonsense coming from Portugal."

Police also applied to see the phone records of the friends that Gerry and Kate were on holiday with.

But Portugal's supreme court yesterday issued a detailed ruling rejecting the application. It is believed detectives waited too long to request the records and that accessing them could breach privacy laws. A local judge had already turned down the application.

As part of the ruling, it emerged for the first time that the McCanns are being investigated for manslaughter.

It is the first time official paperwork has been made public in the year-long investigation into the five-year-old's disappearance from Praia da Luz.

The 5,000-word ruling also reveals that police are investigating the McCanns for "exposure, abandonment and concealment of a corpse".

Kate and Gerry recently claimed police do not officially suspect them - even though they are both still "arguidos".

McCanns' spokesman Clarence Mitchell said: "They are not officially suspected of any crime.

"Nor have they been accused of any crime."

Maddy has been missing for 392 days

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This is from the Mirror, here is the full link.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstories/2008/05/29/mccanns-in-fury-after-14-txts-slur-89520-20432830/

I just knew that the text calls were just rubbish, but I was waiting for the McCanns to say something first. We would have heard about them long before now. And on reading this article, one would have to agree with the judge that if the phone calls were important they should have been asked for long ago, as part of the initial part of the investigation, not many many months later. I had been wondering about the time thing mentioned in the other articels and I am not sure if this is a correct interpretation either. But it makes more sense than the other claims that you must apply to get the phone calls prior to the event. Some of this evidence can be applied for after the event, if there were indications from prior to the event that would have led the judge to grant permission, if application had been made prior to the event. God , I hope that made sense. Anyway, basically, the judge wouldnt grant permission for a fishing trip based on no evidence from before the incident (as there is nothing to implicate them), so they will not allow the phone calls in.

If there are very few phone calls, and they will show nothing, just distraught parents after Madeleine went missing, why would the PJ/Prosecutor have even applied to see the transcripts. They must have known they would be rejected.

Just another smear in my opinion.

But I will admire the PJ for mentioning every possible thing in their request to the court, even if they havent been investigating them.
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So Whats New!

Post by Tinkerbell43 on Fri May 30, 2008 5:11 am

Is this really anything new. OK, its official confirmation, but isnt this only confirming what was in the LEAKED interim reports presented in January!.

It details the areas under investigation, yep, you would expect to see all of those possibilities detailed. All lines of enquiry remain open, yep, INCLUDING abduction. The problem is, the PJ concentrated on the wrong one, and why, because imo it was the one theory that suited Gonc!. :bounce:

If the PJ pursue the charge of neglect, it is obvious to me, after 14 months they have NOTHING else. This doesnt surprise me, knowing the mindset of the PJ they have to be seen to do something. So I say bring it on, lets see you prove it and why your at it, lets see everything else in the files too, because what you have subjected these parents to over the past 14 months is imo inhumane.
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Re: Madeleine McCann's parents investigated for neglect

Post by Guest on Fri May 30, 2008 9:23 pm

PJ continues this paedo-tom-tom against Madeleine parents. And british newspaper repeat it loyal to PJ. When they are going to report the man in Madeleine's snapshot was PJ detective and ask why this PJ detective shadowed Madeleine before an abduction?

There is no logic in accusations of PJ at all. Why they are going to charge only Madeleine parents when friends of Maddie McCann’s parents left their kids alone too. It is pure sadism to accuse parents who have lost their child but not accuse parents, whose child was not abducted. I can see PJ only want to torture Madeleine's parents and increase their suffering and every nasty lie PJ proves more they are linked in elitepaedophilerings.

"Defamation and false accusations have always been used to destroy the reputation of people liable to endanger these networks. It is called the paedo tom-tom."

http://fondationprincessedecroy.over-blog.org/article-7116174.html

And it is still not 100% sure, there was not room listening service in Ocean Club, because there is very contradictory information.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53835
http://portugalresident.com/portugalresident/showstory.asp?ID=18787

I think there was not, because Mitchell has said there was not this service. But when it was very usual in other Mark Warners resorts (maybe in Portugal too), it encouraged parents to leave their children alone. They thought when it was safe in other resorts it was safe in Ocean Club too and Praia Da Luz is very quiet, peaceful place. You could ever imagine, there could be snake in paradise.

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Neglect charges - why now?

Post by Guest on Sun Jun 01, 2008 5:02 am

This issue was discussed again on the blog yesterday and a poster called 4portugal stated that had the McCanns been local parents, they would have been charged at the time. The following is a copy of one of my replies - which I think is appropriate to display in this section of the forum:-

4P,

I think the tragic case of Madeleine McCann has made families more aware and alert to the dangers of a possible abduction and that the McCanns, whilst doing everything in their power to continue searching for their darling daughter, are also promoting further awareness of child safety and at the same time, working with others to bring an Amber style Alert system into force throughout Europe.

You appear to be very critical of your pj for not charging the McCanns with neglect. Firstly, you should consider the human element. It has been pointed out to us by numerous previous Portuguese posters, that the pj are fathers, uncles etc and very family orientated. Some of them would have witnessed, at first hand, the McCanns pain, suffering and grief at the loss of their daughter and the thoughts they were having to contend with, as to what may have happened to her.


Secondly, I feel it is very likely that neglect charges were possibly considered/discussed very early on and that the pj would have sought advice from a magistrate or some type of expert on the matter, as to whether any charges would a) be judicial and be seen to be acting in the public interest b)have the prospect of being successful and c)if yes to a) and b) I believe they would have to question how Portugal and its legal system would be perceived by the rest of the world, whose press were camping on their doorstep, so to speak. To conclude, I feel the pj made to correct decision not to bring charges of neglect - this time last year.

Current talk/hints/leaks of future charges of neglect, have imo surfaced because the pj want them circulated to put further pressure on this family at the same time as point scoring. This whole nightmare has now descended into a tit for tat situation. I do not blame the family or their holiday companions for speaking out on tv etc, as they have been subjected to an absolutely monumental amount of disgraceful press and smears that could have had the ability to drive an average person to a mental health breakdown.

Arguido is now the only Portuguese word that many people know. The pj have become a laughing stock and imo, the errors and omissions they made in this case, will be studied and cited by police forces throughout the world, as what NOT to do in cases of this nature, as and when they occur in the future.

If charges of negligence are ever pursued, it would only serve to bring more shame on the pj and their methods (they would be perceived as spiteful and inhumane imo) and would also backfire imo and further affect their beloved tourist industry.

Yes a crime was commited. A more heinous crime would be hard to imagine. A three year old little girl was taken from the comfort and warmth of her bed, from the life of her loving family by an abductor. The abductor is the criminal, or are you not concerned with this aspect or possibly prefer some of the other theories being bandied about?

The other crime that has been committed imo, is the institutional negligence of the Portuguese police, which continues to this day.

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