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Madeleine Hunt Targets New Murder Suspect

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Re: Madeleine Hunt Targets New Murder Suspect

Post by Rosie on Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:11 am

Hi Alroy

Michael Brunt of Sky News measured the distance from the tapas bar, it was;


  • Just under 100 yards
  • Approximately 89 steps
  • Taking approximately 59 secs to walk.


As Sadie said, looking at it across from the tapas bar, would probably be marginally less, but for all the reasons you point out, their vision would have been obscured.

Two things Alroy, if someone working in the restaurant was a lookout, he/she would have also known very well that the view from the tapas was not very clear.

I think it is very important to go right back to the beginning of this, until this is done and the puzzle pieced together, I believe it lessens the likelihood of Madeleine being found.

If you can get inside the head of the person committing the crime, it is possible to build a picture of whom may be responsible.

I believe as you do, that the window was opened for specific reasons, I have two in mind;

  1. For a quick escape should anyone return unexpectedly
  2. For passing Madeleine through

Like you, I am having trouble thinking of a reason why they would then walk past that road with Madeleine, increasing the risk of getting caught.
I have come to some possibilities


  • The abductor is a person working on his own and has NO vehicle
  • The abductor lived close by and worked with an accomplice
  • The abductors car broke down
  • The car was parked in that road and the abductor could not return to it because Jes and Gerry were standing there.



I believe this is key, because it needs to be discovered why there was a gap in the time between Jane Tanner's sighting, the Carpenters hearing something and then the Smith sighting.
Discovering this, could possibly lead to a place where she was taken for a short space of time, someones villa, someones apartment, someones garden, shed or barn, before being moved on to somewhere, where I think she was possibly handed over.
Could this place of short stay be very near to where the Carpenter's heard someone calling "Madeleine or Marian" - whatever?
Has there been an extensive forensic search of the area concentrating where the Carpenters thought they heard a voice?

Maybe the abductors were always planning to walk past that road, but were just not bargaining on Gerry, Jes and Jane Tanner being there? This would explain why they used the window, it made more sense than going out of the patio door, only to turn and walk up the road.

Going with the theory that someone from inside was helping the abductor, perhaps the place that Madeleine was taken to, was part of the Ocean Club? Or a vacant apartment?

This is why it is imperative that the place of short stay be discovered. This is another key point!

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A MAIZE OF QUESTIONS!

Post by Royal on Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:51 am

Hiya Rosie & other friends, have you ever lost your car in a car park, I have mislaid mine on a few occasions but there is a difference between 'mislaid' and actually lost. Yet that happened to me one day at a huge shopping Mal in Manchester. I had learned long since not to look at and memorize other cars nearby as a means of recording your position in the Park as cars come and go, so I now make a mental note and sighting of something more stable and permanent. On this occasion I fixed my position on a certain part of the building and then counted the number of rows as I walked to the entrance. Having done my shopping I left the building and headed towards my car, or where I believed I had left it. Twelve fifteen rows back or whatever I looked around but no sign. I wandered around like an aimless sheep first one way and then the other, still no car! "This is ridiculous" I thought to myself getting a little hot under the collar, "it's got to be around here somewhere" I assured myself looking at the frontage of the Mal again. "Calm down" I told myself, "try to be methodical" so I walked to the back of the car park about twenty or thirty rows and then weaved my way towards the front looking at every car on every row but stopped at about 7 or 8 rows from the front knowing I wasn't that far forwards. I then went through the procedure in reverse, still no car. By now I was beginning to get flustered and panicky, "How the hell do I get home" was just one of my worries! There was just one explanation left, the car must have been stolen, but who would bother stealing my car it wasn't the newest or even the smartest! Standing in a daze, I stared at the huge shopping Mal, the biggest in Manchester and decided I shall just have to advise the stores security and see if they can help me. However before doing that I decided to take a much wider look around the park which was split into huge 'blocks' and there it was, in exactly the row number I had remembered but in the next block! The point of this story is how easy it is to be fooled by ilusions and being over confident in ones abilities! Standing in front of my car I gazed at the front of this huge building and sure enough the sighting I had originally made could have been made from either one of three blocks and with the same outcome. So, looking at the picture provided by you Rosie of the Tapas bar and the Mccans apartment I would swear it is as near as dam it to a hundred yards but "things are not what they always seem to be!" Perhaps looking from the apartment to the Tapas Bar may look considerably nearer, and even different again in daylight! Look at the differing opinions being put forwards about the abduction. Was she taken through the Patio, the front door or the window, some people are convinced Hewlett is the culprit, some believe she was kidnapped to order by some huge syndicate. I used to believe she was taken by sea and now I'm just not sure any more! Quite honestly I think we are all frustrated and very confused with no ending in sight! We are all lost in a maize of false trails, the never ending inacurate statements from various sources, the sudden discovery of suspects followed by doubt and conflict. With no help from the PJ who now seem to have completely abandoned the case having first almost ruined the lives of Maddies parents. Court cases, wrong convictions, corrupt police officers, judiciary and politicians are all thrown together in a soup of intrigue, failure, distrust, mystery,and dishonesty. God help us all!
Alroy.

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Re: Madeleine Hunt Targets New Murder Suspect

Post by AlexG on Wed Jul 01, 2009 7:25 am

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Re: Madeleine Hunt Targets New Murder Suspect

Post by Rosie on Wed Jul 01, 2009 8:16 am

Alroy, I understand what you are saying about the distance. Remember when we used to post on the Daily Express blogs? I was always of the opinion that this investigation needed to be taken right back to the very start, it is such a pity that the McCanns were forced to employ private detectives, almost two years later, to do precisely Taking the investigation back to the very beginning is something Paulo Rebelo should have done, when he took over after Amaral got the sack four months after Madeleine disappeared! But instead all he did was try his best to extend the arguido status of the parents for as long as he could, ensuring that the trail went cold and making sure Madeleine or her abductors could not be traced.

I believe that even of Hewlett did not have anything to do with this, his appearance on the scene has actually clarified the situation a little and has helped people understand that there was an abduction, that there were people in and around Praia da Luz at the time, that could have very easily carried this out. Having someone to concentrate on has actually sharpened the mind. I have read some excellent comments on here thinking things through.
I believe Hewlett is probably involved, if not the abduction itself, the he probably knows what happened and who did it. There are far too many coincidences and unexplained variables, for Hewlett not to be involved and each time we think it has gone away it pops up again with another piece of the jigsaw.

What has been shown is exactly how badly the PJ conducted this investigation, personally, in my opinion, I believe this investigation was destroyed on purpose, to prevent the culprits being found. In short a cover up, which will not only involve paedophilia but will also involve financial corruption.

However, I think this investigation is at a much healthier place than it was a few months ago and I believe that much work is going on behind the scenes and I believe that the detectives are very close to something, just my opinion, but I think it is so.

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Re: Madeleine Hunt Targets New Murder Suspect

Post by jean on Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:15 am

Hi Rosie and Alroy - I agree with you 101% Rosie when you say that the detectives working on finding Madeleine are closer than anyone has been. Also the fact that there has been an enormous cover up by the PJ. It is heartbreaking that Madeleine and her parents have been caught up right in the middle of the corrupt world of the Portuguese police. I am still not convinced that Robert Murat, his now wife, and Serge Malinka were not involved. There could be so many senarios to this, and so many people could be involved up to their necks. I am also convinced that someone from the Ocean Club was the 'spotter' and was employed to put the finger on a vulnerable child. How horrendous for the McCanns, who were lulled into a false sense of security because Praia da Luz seemed such a safe place. Little did they know that they would be living a night mare from 3 May onwards. How I wish that little girl could be found, so that they could get some peace, and start to live again.

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Re: Madeleine Hunt Targets New Murder Suspect

Post by jean on Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:46 am

Sometimes I feel that the abductor lived very close by, and it wasn't the work of an international gang of paedophiles. If this was the case then I am very worried, because if it was a spontaneous act he would have panicked when he saw the media frenzy that Madeleine's abduction caused and no telling what might have happened to her. Then again when another point is put forward, such as the photograph of the child on the back of the gypsy woman, I feel that 'yes, that was definitely her' and she will be alright because they will use her to beg and steal. Then there is the international gang aspect, which as I have said before, I don't want to think about. Then there is Hewlett, what does he know? Whatever he knows, if anything, should be got out of him pretty sharpish before he pops his clogs!! But from what I can see the private investigators can't get to him. Then there are the people who leave messages on the Find Madeleine website. Practically every one of them are 'praying for Madeleine and the McCanns'. I know there is nothing really positive that we can do except pray, but that in itself isn't good enough. The people who can help seem to be doing nothing, and we, who are so desperate to help can't do anything only go over various ideas time and time again. It is so frustrating. I have never felt so helpless in my life.

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ROSIE, JEAN AND ALEXG.

Post by Royal on Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:16 pm

Howdi this gorgeous sunny morning (er, afternoon) thanks for your contributions which all helps to make this a most interesting and informative forum. You are absolutely right Rosie in everything you have said, I believe we are always on the same 'wavelength'. As you have said Alex, every time we feel there is a break through we are dashed to the ground and have to "pick ourselves up, dust ourselves down and start all over again" now why does that saying ring a bell? Just kidding! Jean, you seem to have the habit of echoing my thoughts, quite unintentionally I'm sure! Great minds think alike! Having said that, and I don't want to be treading on anyones toes here, but when I read the report of the interview with Hewlett there were somethings he said which made me think, is he telling the truth by saying "he had nothing to do with it?" We all like to believe that when nearing ones final moments we would want to be truthful, clear ones concience and make ammends for ones wrong doings! A very tall order in Hewletts case I agree! But then I consider other remarks he has made such as agreeing he knows the area around the Oceans Club and I'm not sure but did he admit to loitering around there quite a lot? Then there is the "untruth" that he only had the big blue van whereas a previous friend states he actually had a white van at the time? We know that a white van was seen at times 'hanging' around the area! Could this be the Van in question, and more to the point was that the van used for the abduction and was Hewlett in the driving seat? I honestly do not believe Hewlett matches the "photofit" drawings of the kidnapper which to some extent makes sense, after all Hewlett had earlier fled the UK where he was a convicted Paedophile, suspected murderer and wanted for questioning by various police forces. He would not want to fall foul of the Portuguese authorities, his adopted safe haven! To avoid being implicated in Madeleines abduction was he being a "crafty" so and so by waiting round the corner in the white van whilst his accomplice, a much darker featured man carried out the dirty deed, and by doing so knowing that if things went wrong he could dash off into the night leaving his conspiritor behind to face the music! As it was this did not actually happen and the abduction was successful but perhaps initially he was actually parked near, even outside the apartment but noticing the presence of JT, Gerry and others decided it was safer (for him) to move round the corner out of sight! This then put his accomplice in the difficult position of having to walk in full view of JT etc across the junction to reach the van further down the road! He would not be a very happy man you can be sure and this does not explain the actual method of escaping the apartment. This Scenario, together with our previous discussions on how the abduction was actually carried out fits the bill perfectly. I believe the actual abductor was Hewlett's partner in crime and Hewlett was playing safe by simply acting as the driver, and it was his van after all. Does this theory not make sense to you kind people, I look forwards to your comments, if any!
Alroy.

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Re: Madeleine Hunt Targets New Murder Suspect

Post by clairesy on Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:12 am

HI jean,

ive sometimes wondered that to....if madeleine was taken by a crazy man local.I don't think she was taken by someone just passing by though...that's way to much of a coincidence.However i do sometimes wonder if a local man saw her....watched them......took her......... then later killed her.

Mostly i believe she is alive,but at times i do wonder.It might explain why she she was not found at first...if she was ina local house etc.

And being local would mean they had knowledge of all the hiding places (wells) where she could have easily been disposed of.

Not sure,i also cant get murat out of my head not matter how much i try.Even with Hewlett who seems almost certain to know somethign about Madeleine im still drawn back to murat.Im adamant this man knows something.Im not saying he took her,but i think he knows people,i think he knows more that he has said.

i hold onto the belief she alive the same way everyone else does i suppose...after al there is no proof she is dead...but then so far there is no prrof she is alive.

I think given such a dilemma and not knowing weather she is dead or alive we have to believe she is alive because if we don't....then the search starts dwindling away and Madeleine becomes just another unsolved child abduction case and considered dead.

please god let her alive and found soon.The pressure from the investigation must be putting her abductor/s under a lot f stress.I think that could explain the false sightings etc.

they obviously have a deluded mind to think of taking a child in the first place so calling a police station or newspaper with a false lead is nothing for them.

just take a look at the 3a site...how they suggested bombarding the hot line with false leads....I mean,what a crazy heartless thing to do....

so i wouldn't be surprised if some of these false sightings and leads are deliberate attempts to divert attention and confuse.
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Re: Madeleine Hunt Targets New Murder Suspect

Post by sadie on Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:25 am

Clairesy

please god let her alive and found soon.The pressure from the investigation must be putting her abductor/s under a lot f stress.I think that could explain the false sightings etc.

they obviously have a deluded mind to think of taking a child in the first place so calling a police station or newspaper with a false lead is nothing for them.

just take a look at the 3a site...how they suggested bombarding the hot line with false leads....I mean,what a crazy heartless thing to do....

so i wouldn't be surprised if some of these false sightings and leads are deliberate attempts to divert attention and confuse


Every bit. I agree wholeheartedly. Almost makes you think that it would be better not to speculate, because much/most of what we are speculating on is deliberate disinformation put about to waste the Mccanns time and money, IMO

Red Herrings! BAH!!

There is a mastermind behind this. A clever one IMO. He knows that we will keep trying and he is keeping our minds focused on PdL and Germany.

Madeleine is somewhere else!
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Re: Madeleine Hunt Targets New Murder Suspect

Post by Pedro Silva on Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:46 am

My friend Clairesy, good point, and I quote: "I hold onto the belief she is alive, the same way everyone else does, I suppose... after all there is no proof she is dead... but then so far there is no proof she is alive. I think given such a dilemma and not knowing wether she is dead or alive, we have to believe she is alive, because if we donīt... then the search starts dwindling away and Madeleine becomes just another child abduction case and considered dead" and we will not allow that to happen, we will never stop, we will never give up. Without evidence otherwise, everything we do is based on this: she could still be alive, she can still be found.

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MADELEINE, THE UNCERTAINTY!

Post by Royal on Fri Jul 03, 2009 7:34 am

Hello again, Speaking about our skirmishes on the Express Rosie. today I bought a copy today for the first time since they had to apologize to the Mccanns and pay them damages. It's just that today they headlined an article about a possible new cure for prostate cancer, always a worry for older men! Apart from buying a paper at the local garage and going through the car wash I called in the bank. A lady was talking at the enquiry desk and her little two years old boy was wandering around the place in childish wonderment! He looked up at me, pointed to a tall chair and mumbled something or other in baby talk. I smiled and said hello and he pointed to the tall chair again as if wanting to know the name, and smiling I said "yes, it's a chair", that's all... The mother looked round at me and called her little boy over, "come here!" she said in a rather stern voice. I immediately felt uncomfortable and realized it was a mistake to talk to other peoples children nowadays, we are all looked upon as child molestors and kidnappers! The fact that I am nearly 80 years of age, married with two children of my own, four grandchildren and four great grandchildren was of no consequence, she wasn't to know that and as far as she was concerned I was a potential threat to her child! Isn't that awful, what sort of a world do we live in that we are not allowed to still love little children as though they were our own. This happened to me once before when I simply said hello to a little girl in a shop queue and the mother glared at me. On that occasion I was with my wife who much to my displeasure apologized to the mother on my behalf saying "I'm sorry, he doesn't realize!" That was so humiliating and after this latest discomfort in the bank I feel inclined never to speak to any child again, with or without their parents! I find this situation so distressing as when I look at any child now in my later years it takes my memory back to when mine were tiny. It's like trying to relive the past, they were wonderful times for me and now they are all gone, just beautiful memories! But I can fully understand the need for parents to take care of their children these days, there are bad people about and it's not easy for parents to differentiate between good and evil, so all men are now looked upon as a danger and a threat to children. But please tell me, how can I not see tiny children as little angels, how can I turn my back and not return a childs smile, life should not be like this but sadly that's how it seems to be these days! So sad, so upsetting!
Alroy.

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Re: Madeleine Hunt Targets New Murder Suspect

Post by sadie on Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:12 am

Alroy, we all know you are a good guy

Take comfort in that

Hugs

sadie xx ohdear
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Re: Madeleine Hunt Targets New Murder Suspect

Post by AlexG on Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:15 am

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Re: Madeleine Hunt Targets New Murder Suspect

Post by Rosie on Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:01 am

Oh Alroy, how sad! Yes we are all in heightened awareness and very dubious of strangers talking to children. But if you are in a queue and the mother or parent is there, I do feel they should use a bit of discretion. Would they like it if their child spoke to you and you totally blanked them? If little children talk to you and they get no reply, they will keep on until they do, or they will ask in very loud voices why you are not answering them. I feel it is so sad.
I know when I am out and being female you think it is different, but when I see a child who I think is lost, even I, as a female am in two minds about what to do, so if it is in a shop, I grab and assistant, if outside then I keep watch until I see child and parent reunited.

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Re: Madeleine Hunt Targets New Murder Suspect

Post by sadie on Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:17 am

AlexG wrote:Hugs to you, Alroy and for Sadie too !!!

Gee, that's nice.

Thanks Alex!
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Re: Madeleine Hunt Targets New Murder Suspect

Post by clairesy on Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:35 am

its extremely difficult as a parent of young ones.You dont know how to teach them.I have taught my little one she must never talk to strangers or go off with them.I have also taught her that even she knows the person she still must never go off with them unless mammy as told her that it is ok to .Its hard because you have to do that without scaring them,although you have to make sure they take it in to.

Theres a fine line....and its getting it right.But you cant ever get it exact right

one thing i have noticed is that even though my little one wont talk with strangers as such...it only takes about a minuit of chat with someone she hasn't met before(when i am with her of course) before my child is deep in convo and trusting the adult.So it doesn't matter how much you try to drum it in into your kids that they cannot go or talk with strangers they will.If the situation is right and comfortable for them they will because they are not able to understand.A stranger to a child is a horrible person,someone to fear etc...so if they are spoken to nicely and befriended they will trust and the person they are talking with is no longer a stranger to them

We all do...even as adults...if someone appears nice and well natured we tend to like them,warm to them and trust them...its only later when they harm you you sudden realise you have been lulled into a false sense of security with them.

i do think there are certain situations where the parent can be a bit silly.If a you are stood at a checkout and the lady or guy behind you is giggling away at your child playing etc then i don't see no reason to stop them saying hello.I also think the mum was silly to call her child from you alroy because imo that is another situation where i believe it is innocent enough.Noone approached the child....the child came by you and you said hello....whats wrong with that,it happens every day.It would have been different if you had got up off your eat walked over and starting making convo with the kid...then i could understand her calling the child away.

I think thats the line,the balance of getting it right with your kids.When is it ok to say hello to a stranger....sometimes or never??because in all fairness we tell our kids never...... but then we also expect them to be polite.Very very hard it is.

sorry you felt that way today alroy,but it wasn't you being in the wrong saying hello....imo it was the mum,you didn't approach that child the child approached you,you just said hello....if you had ignored her the mum would have probably said...''oh look its one of those who dont like kids probably,miserably so and so cant even say hiya to her''

so you just cant blooming win can ya chick!
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Re: Madeleine Hunt Targets New Murder Suspect

Post by dianeh on Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:45 am

Hi Alroy

LEt me assure you that most of us mothers are not that stupid. I encourage my children to reply to other adults, but only when we (parents, grandparents) are there. Children must be confident to talk to adults, as there will come a time when they may need to. But they also must learn about stranger danger, and my choice is that when they are young we teach our kids that it is OK to talk to other adults if Mum or Dad is there, but not if they are not. It is hard to find the line between raising a timid scared child and one that is so confident that he/she would just go off with a stranger.

I remember when my daughter was about 6 months old. This elderly man came up to her pram at the supermarket, and looked in. She gave him one of her giant smiles (such a big smile she has, and it always attracts people), and he smiled back. Then he saw me looking and was startled. He apologised. I said, to him, hold her hand, and talk to her, she will love it. And she did. He talked to her for a few minutes and then thanked me. He said it made his day and then explained that he has had a rough week, with a death in the family (he didnt elaborate) and that seeing and talking to this beautiful little girl had made him happy.

He was so sad, and I was so glad to help him. A random act of kindness. I have thought about him often over the last 4 years and wondered what became of him. And thinking of him reminds me that there being kind to others costs nothing and brings its own reward.
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Re: Madeleine Hunt Targets New Murder Suspect

Post by sadie on Fri Jul 03, 2009 12:23 pm

Two very sensible posts, Clairesy and Dianeh, and sensitive too
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