Portuguese Police Lowest of the Low?

It may be that we have been a little harsh on the PJ overall, as it has been said on here many times that the likes of Amaral are a poor public image for the other hard working honest coppers.

I like you think that Rebelo has done all he could to resurrect the Madeleine case, and I also think part of his job was to find a way out of the mess, and hand over the information for further investigation without further damaging the PJ's reputation. I would have preferred that he handed the files over to another police force but I do respect that many very damaging things have been left in the files, and this shows his even handedness and honesty.

The thing is though, that there it is very difficult to make complaints against the PJ by anyone with a grievance. There is no independent corruption commission, no whistleblower protection. If you make a complaint, it is investigated by the PJ. Even in countries where the police do this themselves, it is usually an independent division answerable directly to the most senior person, or even directly to the minister.

Additionally, even after the mess of the Cipriano case, and the subsequent allegations, Amaral was allowed to be the lead investigator in another missing child case, and we now see the results of that.

Yes, every country has its own problems, but it is how we deal with them that is the defining factor. Here in Aust, we have a separate organisation in each state to deal with all corruption in govt, including the police. It doenst stop it, we still have corruption, but it is found, and dealt with in the public arena. We have a current case in Victoria where a very senior policeman (very very senior, in head of a department) and two of his underlings are currently facing charges for supplying information to an underworld figure who was a suspect in a murder case. It is taken extremely seriously, and they have all been suspended, and in fact were suspended before charges were laid, as the investigation was undertaken. That is how serious it is. They are not allowed on other investigations, nor can they influence other officers. Etc etc.

I know I speak for everyone here, when I say that the regular hardworking officer on the PJ and the local police force as well, as not the target of this forum. It is Amaral, and those above him who allowed him to continue working, and compound the tragedy of Madeleine's abduction by persecuting her family.

I have to confess, I read this thread with some dismay and I think it's important to bring a sense of balance and perspective to the subject.

Police forces of every country have their share of outstanding or rotten officers -- and also incidents that reflect credit or shame on the whole force of that country. I'll give you one from Britain that reflects extreme shame on our force -- the shooting dead of an innocent Brazilain man, Jean Charles de Menezes, at Stockwell Tube Station. For me, what was worst about that whole sorry episode is that the woman who presided over it, Cresida Dick, was promoted, even before the enquiry into the incident was complete.

Portugual has a much smaller population than Britain (just 10.5 million people) and far fewer crimes of the type of which Madeleine has been victim. Therefore, they will not be as practised at investigating such a crime as (say) Britain's police force. The learning curve is a kind of seat-of-the-pants experience on the hoof as it happens, and the approach is unlikely to be as thorough or professional as it might be. So it was to Portugal's credit that they accepted outside help -- perhaps less to their credit that they delayed too long. Where individual officers go, while I, like the majority here, I think, have no time for Amoral, I warm more to Rebello. Certainly, the stream of leaks, so much a feature of Amaral's tenure during his time in charge, dwindled markedly upon Rebello taking charge. I believe Rebello was handed a poisoned challice of a case by Amaral he tried his level best to reserruct, but without success. No reflection of discredit on him for that, and one is left wondering what the whole outcome might have been had he had charge of the case from the beginning.

Even in the debacle of the Cipriano case (again beset by problems of rarity of the type of crime and lack of practice at investigating them, as in the investigation into Madeleine's disappearance -- and the common denominator of Amaral) I see cause for something that gives me hope -- the fact that a very serious allegation has been taken seriously and investigated. That suggests a separation of powers between the judiciary and the police force, with the judiciary holding the whip-hand -- precisely as it should be, and meaning that the police force is accountable for its actions. That, again, reflects credit on the Portuguese way of doing things.

In conclusion, I'm unsure that it's strictly fair to take the investigation into Madeleine's disappearance as an indicator of Portuguese policing as a whole.

Rosiepops wrote:It has been reported that the McCann family are on holiday with the twins, if this is true, the recent leaks have great significant timing!

Kate and Gerry would have had to report to the PJ that they were going away on holiday, so I believe that these leaks, leaked by the PJ were done solely to disrupt their holiday and spoil it for them and especially for the twins.

If it was ever possible that this scum of a police force could actually slip any lower in my estimation, they have just managed it, how abhorrent this dreadful narcissistic police force actually is.

This making the McCann's arguidos was never about finding Madeleine or discovering what happened to her, it was all about saving face for this totally inept, insensitive, uncaring amoral police force.

A truly terrible, spiteful nasty morally bankrupt Portuguese Judiciaria (PJ)

It doesn't matter anymore but only now have I found this thread.

I don't know which news you are refering to, but being arguidos with no bail, the McCanns should inform the police whenever they intend to be away from their residence for more than 5 days in a row. Living in the UK I would expect that this information could be passed to their local police and it should be it, but I may be wrong, and they should tell PJ directly (through their lawyers).

Now, 'making the McCann's arguidos was never about finding Madeleine or discovering what happened to her,' not even 'was all about saving face for this totally inept, insensitive, uncaring amoral police force'. It was nothing more than a hooligan attitude to 'frighten' the parents in the vague hope that they confessed something they didn't do and try to convince some dumb prosecutor and/or court into charge and sentence them. The PJ team in charge of this investigation is indeed inept and amoral, so they don't even know they have a face, let alone the 'need' of saving it.

good point how can portugal they be any part of the eu they are a disgrace to society

With your comments Melbel, Modenrocker and Shingle, if we can all see it, so must all other logical thinking people.

I believe pretty soon Portugal is going to be rocked by another scandal bigger than their Casa Pia scandal, only this time they will not be able hide it as they have done with Casa Pia and they will not be able to get the politicians, doctors, local dignatries, police and celebrities off!

It does not surprise me to hear they had such a lax attitude towards child porn. They have this Casa Pia trial going on, it is a trial that is definitely in the interest of the public, yet Portugal has held it behind closed doors! no one knows what the hell is going on!

How can a country that is a member of the EU be allowed to behave like this? It makes a mockery out of it, well it is a mockery anyway, the EU is full of corruption too!

It is also worth remembering that untill about five years ago, child porn was still legal in Portugal. I hesitate to say it, but old habits die hard.

I am of the opinion that the PJ made up their minds in the first few hours, that a murder charge laid on the parents, would be best for Portugal and best for it's economy.

The tourist industry is worth around 8 billion Euros a year to Portugal, so they didn't want the sort of exposure that a case like this would bring.

Many people have been shocked to find that they have no data base on paedophiles, and just how lax the abuse against children laws are. It would not have been seen as ideal that tourists, would think that paedophiles and abductors were at work in Portugal.

Far better to let the world think that Portugal is a haven and this was an isolated case that was committed by the parents. All they had to do was fit the evidence around the theory and apply a little of their usual interrogation methods to the parents and job done.

Unfortunately for the PJ, the family got off to a roaring start to highlight the case and with the world suddenly looking in, they were unable to employ their usual methods of extracting a confession, and having no experience with dealing with abductions, they were unable to find evidence that would lead to the truth.

The only way out was for them to start a smear campaign against Kate and Gerry that would ensure that the world really did think the parents were to blame.

I totally agree, Rosie and Modnrodder,that saving face,has been everything here.
They were unable to produce the facts and evidence, but that did not stop this Portugese Police force, behaving like that of a third world country. They tried to fit any evidence around the suspects.They then tried and are still trying to destroy the Mccann's character, by lies about forensic evidence from a dead person,being found in the room and ridiculous theories about how the family hid madeleine's body, all in full view of world media.
Come on then, Fatgonc, bring it on. I dare you to stand up and say that the Mccanns killed their daughter.I believe that you will be going down for a long time.
Well.our press, will have no mercy once the legal green light is given.
Portugal, you have seen nothing yet.
Tws posters were lamenting the lack of investigative journalists working on this case.Do not believe it and once they are free to speak, like the Mccanns will be, it will rock Portugal.
Their tourist industry will be a distant memory.
The world does not approve of a country that tries to fit suspects up.
As for the c...p about arguidos not meaning "suspects ", as we know it, it is quite apparent what the Portugese system means.Hang your head Portugal.
Th

I just put a post up elswhere about how dignified the family have been with all these leaks. The news takes me up and down. How must it be for them. Now to find that the leaks came while they are on holiday makes me think that the PJ have the motto 'You can run but you cant hide'. I fear that they will not lift the arguido status out of spite also.

It's like the PJ have come to the conclusion that the McCanns did something sinister to Madeleine.....But, they cant prove it so instead of believing the conclusion that their own lack of evidance proves ie they didn't do anything sinister they will cling on to that theory and act like bad losers who wont give back the ball when a goal is scored against them.

It has been reported that the McCann family are on holiday with the twins, if this is true, the recent leaks have great significant timing!

Kate and Gerry would have had to report to the PJ that they were going away on holiday, so I believe that these leaks, leaked by the PJ were done solely to disrupt their holiday and spoil it for them and especially for the twins.

If it was ever possible that this scum of a police force could actually slip any lower in my estimation, they have just managed it, how abhorrent this dreadful narcissistic police force actually is.

This making the McCann's arguidos was never about finding Madeleine or discovering what happened to her, it was all about saving face for this totally inept, insensitive, uncaring amoral police force.

A truly terrible, spiteful nasty morally bankrupt Portuguese Judiciaria (PJ)